Good morning. Good evening. Good afternoon. Wherever you are, wherever this time finds you.Thanks for taking the time with

us. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you everyone so much for your time today, Liz and I are beyond thrilled to be here today. So I'm Alicia and

I'm Liz and we're women on work. And today we're gonna be going on camera and off podcast and talking about technology and career progression and we're gonna do it our style um with a little bit of uh tangents, probably so along the way.

And this, this is such an important topic to, to really dig into and we'll be focused on both how organizations and leaders can really design an inclusive experience that supports women in the technology space. But before we really dive into that a little bit more about us. Although again, if you've joined a couple of minutes early, you've already gotten to see a little bit of, of our dynamic. But uh again, I'm Alicia Eve by day, I'm the director of product marketing at Citrix. And in my free time, I'm also the co-host and co-founder of the women on work podcast, which is an honest dialogue about all the trials and tribulations that come with being a woman in the workplace and trying to build a successful career on your terms.

And I'm Liz Fuller, also the co-host and co-founder of women on work. And so together Alicia and I just have a lot of wide ranging conversations on the podcast. But in my day job, I'm the vice president and general manager of Global Marketing at Zones

and Liz, Before we get into what organizations and leaders can do. I think it's really important to talk about how the world has changed over the last couple of years.

It has changed a lot and I don't, we're not going to get into politics or, or um any kind of medical field conversations, but we are, I mean, I think it is, it is just something that we need to cover and just talk about the fact that there's a lot that's changed if we look back in the last two years.

Uh and from, especially from the work line, the work life and those lines that have been blurred. I would very much say that there is no line anymore. It's a bunch of dotted lines where work creeps into life and life creeps into work. My kids have zoom bombed me. My dog has, my cats have so I, I would just say that um, a lot of it's just been a very open and you get to see a peek into everyone's world. And that's creating a lot of empathy and it's a lot of, it's being driven by women in terms of us recognizing and um um really recognizing that it is important that you reach out to your, your employees, not as employees, but as people really realize that life is messy, we talk about that all the time on the podcast, but life is really messy and it's important that as leaders, we identify and as an organization identify that people have had to change and really rebalance a lot.

And it's important that work be empathetic and, you know, on the personal side, not my personal side, but on some personal side, uh you know, people are making different decisions, we'll talk about great evaluation in a little bit, but divorce rates have definitely increased significantly.

I think 21% 21% increase. That's, I mean, that's a lot but that's, I mean, there was a lot of togetherness and I sure I'm sure some of you, you know, have had passing thoughts um from some, you know, too, too much closeness, too much togetherness that's taken place. But I would say also people are changing what they really want, what, what means to be successful. And so also marriage trends are changing. And so these are down to the levels of uh 1963 in terms of marriages that we're seeing. And, and I would say there was a war going on at that time. And so it's just a matter of what, you know, there's a lot of things that are triggering people right now to change with how they approach. And unfortunately, because people have been um you know, more confined into their spaces, there is a rise in domestic abuse and we do want to call that out because as leaders, it's also important for us to recognize those signs and maybe step in sometimes where it's a little bit uncomfortable and, and help your, help your people out.

And just, just to give some numbers to that nearly 10% increase in reported domestic abuse um after the lockdown in 2020. So quite, quite significant and those reported

that's just reported.

Exactly. Exactly. And you know, those are, are very personal changes that um you know, maybe one or several are applicable or we know people that are going through them. But there have also been some fundamental changes that uh from an external standpoint that are putting a ton of pressure on working parents, working women workers of all kinds, as Liz mentioned, you know, about the great resignation and great re evaluation. Uh the last the last couple of years and the last year in particular, has seen a tremendous shift in terms of the job market and we've seen people changing up their jobs at record paces for, you know, greener pastures if you will. Um But what we've also seen is that a lot of those workers, upwards of 20% of people that have changed their job over the last year actually regret it. And quite a bit of this can, can be explained by the fact that there are systemic challenges in the workplace. And, and of course, Liz, and I our experience is, is us based um that it's really built into the culture of the workplace and it doesn't, it's not unique to a specific company. And unfortunately, those, those aspects are ones that you uncover.

Once you've changed your job,

sometimes the grass isn't greener or as they say, the grass isn't greener. And, and it's important that you understand what you want. If you're re evaluating, it's important to first know what you want.

Exactly. Another one is the supply chain disruptions. And every time I think about this, I think of toilet paper for better, for better, for worse because that was like such a hot commodity, especially early in the pandemic, at least here in the United States. But the most recent one is the disruption to formula, which is a, a huge lifeline to so many families. And of course, when it comes to feeding Children, it's such an emotional issue and it, and it is something that, that does very much affect women. And over the last couple of years, we've also seen a rapid maturity in technology uh in terms of being able to be outside of the office and get work done securely especially when it comes to knowledge workers. And this has allowed organizations to really rethink their strategies in terms of when and how and where work gets done uh securely. And it's allowed organizations to have a um a more open potentially policy from, from a, a flexibility standpoint. And you know, those, those are, again, there's so many other ones uh changes, but those are the ones that, that do kind of rise to the top. And although they impact everyone, um who, who works, there are some specific impacts that women have felt more acutely. Uh One of, one of the first ones that comes to mind is, is really burn out.

Um, we've had so much pressure

me included. Right.

Exactly. And, and Liz, half of women report being burned out. And I think on the flip side of that from, from people that identify as men, um, they actually are experiencing burnout at levels below pre panem, uh the pre pandemic time frame. Um So it is a huge gap uh for women. And in fact, up to up to 30% of women have actually had to take time off due to a mental health challenge. I know personally I've taken mental health days

and I've encouraged that of my team as well and looking at how do you take some of your time back? How do you own your schedule? A little bit more, little things that you can do, but it is important that you are aware that everything does impact that mental health and, and, and, and it's not just work that can burn you out. I think that's an important key element too. You look around and evaluate with women. We carry a lot on our shoulders. Um And so we tend to have a lot of the world impact us in very many ways. So I would, uh so from, in addition, I would say I crossed in addition to the gap, I think there was a gap around promotions as well. I I mean, I would say that I don't know any statistics like you do, maybe you do Alicia, but I would say that overall there are fewer promotions for women, but especially for women in leadership. And I know you did have some ratio,

I did. So men were actually promoted at three times the rate as women um during, during the pandemic, which I think there were so many women that also had to leave the workforce to care for their families. That, that, that is definitely an aspect of that as well, right?

Women had to leave the workforce. Jobs were eliminated. In many of those cases. When those jobs were eliminated, there were jobs that were carried by women and and there there have a lot of impacts and to your, I'm really, I'm really struggling to get over that the statistic of burnout for men. But I mean, we're, we're on a, we're on upward into the, right, in terms of burn out women. And we really think about what are those ways that we can help ourselves. And, you know, we have definitely embraced the hybrid work culture a lot more than say, men, men have more of a proclivity to go into the office where it's 20 degrees too cold for us women without, you know, you'd be freezing Alicia and your sleeveless top. Um, it's meant for, it's meant for business jackets. So even temperature isn't set for women. But you know, it's, we've just realized that we can do work much more flexibly wherever we are. But being by not being seen, how does that impact your career trajectory if by having the men be seen more, does that also impact how women are seen in the workplace?

So it's really important that we look at the good and the bad that comes with these types of changes. I by I by far think there's way more good with hybrid work. There's just a little bit of work that needs to be done so that people are more supportive of that type of environment, are more aware of those, those shifts and those differences between men and women. I mean, there's so many you can keep listing, but the idea is that this should not matter. At this point. We've proven it out. Their productivity is at an all time high. We've proven it out that hybrid work is not, it is a form of work and work that can be successful. And so how do we encourage organizations to continue to support that while really overcoming and addressing the fact that there is a bias towards those people that are in the conference room in that when you're seeing face to face, you're sitting having lunch with versus those employees that are sitting at home, remote in another state in another country.

How do you create, how do you create that foster that environment? How do you move into a technology environment? As, as Alicia mentioned, there's a lot of advancements in technology to create more interfacing virtually even in a conference room setting. So looking at how an organization can bring in those remote workers more into the room so that they are actually be able to be visible and also build those relationships and be seen. And that, and, and I would say that I think that that is a responsibility of individuals as well as leadership. You have to encourage that you have to make it. Ok. And, and, and give people the permission to say what they want

and model it and we'll talk a little bit about what leaders can, can specifically do. And so there's setting up the right environment um to try to minimize bias, whether that's proximity bias, people that you see every day, whether it's gender bias or another kind of bias, being very cognizant of that from a company standpoint and the types of culture that you're trying to build and then you have make, creating that space so that leaders can invest in that skill set.

I know that uh for, for so many leaders, you are an individual contributor, but then you're also in management, it's almost like a side hustle. And unfortunately, especially when you're talking about building a culture that, that isn't confined to a physical location, like an office, it takes an investment and a very active one. And so organizations really need to create that space for their leaders, for their managers to, to build that for their, for their employees as well. And then shifting a little bit more into how do you program programmatic uh this from, from an outcome standpoint, from a promotion standpoint, it is about being very defined when it comes to your KPIS to your goals, being very outcome driven. It's not about where the work was done, what work phone calls, how exactly how many needs, but it's what did you actually deliver because that's where you're going to minimize all of these other components. Uh in terms of the bias in terms of um you know, minimizing that and you're instead able to focus on well, who is actually driving the outcomes for the business. And, and part of that too is making sure that you're setting those up ahead of time.

And then there's also this aspect of creating a culture that makes room for failure. Failure is only failure if you don't learn from it. And so allowing people to try different things, be innovative and not be fearful of potentially making the wrong choice or going down a new path that might not ultimately lead to anywhere. This also creates the room for innovation which, which especially with all of the disruptions we've had and all of the changes in how uh how businesses are run and business models, there's a lot of disruption going on that needs to be addressed with some innovation and some new thinking

and it's ok to say things to you tried something and it didn't work. As Alicia mentioned, you have to learn from it and it's what, what will I do as a result of that failure of that not working? And what can I do now? What can I learn from it and do differently? And it's a matter of, I think that failure or that fear of failure often gets in our way my way for sure as a woman because I feel like I'm working so hard and everything I do has to be gold star material and I'm very hard on myself. And so making room for failure can also be making room for a different kind of mindset for my, for me, for my team. So it's really important that you embrace that because also you'll discourage risk taking. And as an organization, you need risk takers because otherwise you won't get that innovation.

Exactly. And so that, that really is from like an organizational view. But what can, what specifically can leaders do? And, and I wanna make it clear that this isn't just about management, you can be a leader and not have a team that directly reports to you. And, and so these, this guidance and these points are applicable regardless of, you know, where you are in the hierarchy of your, of your companies. And you know, Liz, I know for us, I think we've already touched on it a few times. We talk about it all the time in the podcast around empathy and, and vulnerability. And this is where that modeling comes in as

well. And, and we start, and I know that we've tried uh sometimes we're pretty consistent and other times we forget about it. But when we started our podcast, we, um there was something that we had read at the very start of it where we tried to ask each other how we're feeling instead of how we're doing. I think we're doing is an action. Um feeling is truly asking about the person and, and you, and I've tried it out and people pause, don't know what to say because normally you're just gonna need your, oh, I'm, I'm all right or I'm fine and, and when someone asks how you're feeling, that's not really the answer you can give them and it's important to change and make those connections and, and, and I'm really bad about it, you know, on three day weekends asking somebody, oh, how was your long weekend?

I'm like, I'm into work. Let's just go do it. But it is important that you roll back and understand these are people, we call them people, not employees, they are people. And that's really important that as leaders and as Alicia points out, it doesn't mean you have to manage people to be a leader. It's, but you, you have an opportunity if you are in a position to help or to mentor or to even just give somebody the experiences where how like what we do, we started, we started recording our conversations because it was all about how we'd hit our head on the ladder. It wasn't about how we've been successful. It was so maybe these learnings can help others.

Absolutely. And you know, as we talked about in terms of organizations being as a leader, making sure that what you're trying to get to is very clear and being able to measure that impact because again, that can mitigate some of the bias that, that we are mentioning. And so Liz, I feel like 20 minutes goes by so fast. We covered a lot of, a lot of topics as always. But in summary, what, what do you think are the big

takeaways? Well, I'll take the first one because I can talk about that one. We need more support. But we also need to be willing to ask for help. I, I would say I'm not very good about asking for help or saying no. And we talked, we have talked about that on our podcast about prioritizing what helps you before you say yes and, and how to use the word no, with strength and not um not guilt and to feel like you're disappointing someone, you are truly able to, you know, so I think there's support in so many different ways.

People are recognizing that women are under a lot of pressure. Um women being able to position themselves to ask for help and maybe reach out to other networks of women, like just such as this event. I think this is a great opportunity for women to interact and share common experiences. But ultimately, we just need help where there's just a lot on our shoulders and, and we need to, we need to be able to support each other and support ourselves.

Exactly. And I think from an organization standpoint, it's really being cognizant about the kind of culture that you're building. And I think what, what I see happening is a lot of organizations tried to kind of lift and shift their in person culture to a virtual setting and, and that just doesn't work. Um There's so many additional elements of, you know, we've talked about different types of bias um but just being very focused on outcomes and prioritizing leadership and management that's going to lead to a culture that isn't confined to a physical space. And instead going to be inclusive regardless of where somebody happens to work. And then again, from a, from a leader standpoint, empathy is the magic word. And we've said it several times, it's really leading with empathy, taking the time to understand your employees setting clear objectives with them.

So they understand what they're working towards and what ultimately they're going to be measured by. And the measurement is also the key and this can really help when it comes to promotions, bonuses and talent retention, which of course is a huge concern uh with, with the great resignation and, and all of the job shifting that's going on.

And I would say it's very clear, not only to set expectations very clearly, but also check in. Uh sometimes you can set a date and maybe people are just so pressured on that date, but they're missing so many different things. It's ok for a leader to step in and also slow the process and break it down into pieces and really help people, you know, because there's just so many things going on, it's very difficult for people to share their burnout or be vulnerable enough to share their burnout. And I would say vulnerability is one of those key elements that any leader really needs to start to embrace. Share. You don't have to have it all put together. I think that's something that we've been very clear on is that, um, we, we always show our messiness and it's important that, you know, you don't to show all of your messiness. You don't have to go in your pajamas. But, um, I think it's important that we all realize that we're all humans, we all make mistakes.

Exactly. And so again, I know time has flown. Um, so we wanna thank everybody for, for your time today. Uh We've put some of our, our linkedin uh content in the chat. We also are both on Twitter. We're on Instagram with our podcast and you can follow the podcast on any of the major platforms. Um And also check out our website at women on work pod.com where you can get both the episodes as well as our blog.

Well, thank you. Uh So uh you have something to say, right? Alicia

I do and that is just remember, lean in or don't

but whatever you do, you do, you thanks for listening. Have a good day. Bye

everyone. Bye.