Ok. Um Are we life? I, I guess we are. Ok. Um Hello everybody. Um uh Today we welcome to our session uh at the conference called uh Life at Salons.And today we'll uh have a panel discussion with uh a couple of uh women um in um technical positions here at Salon to tell you more about product and engineering at salons. And uh today, um uh so who will be on the panel? Um uh uh My name is Olena. I'm a senior software engineer at Salon. Uh I'll be the one asking questions and trying to moderate the session. Uh Then we have tail um Theodora Lata like she is an associate principal uh product manager at Salon and uh Cindy uh Cindy Marine. She is a software engineer um at salons. Uh So welcome ladies. Uh and um uh I would like to switch on to you and uh start asking you questions. So let's start with the introduction one. So can you tell us uh Cindy, uh would you mind telling us uh introduce yourself and tell us a bit about your background?

Yeah. Uh Hello everyone. I am Cindy. Uh Well, my background is in software engineering. I graduated from college in 2007 in Caracas, Venezuela. Um Right after that, I joined what I always call the entrepreneurial adventure. With six of my friends from college, we developed a B to B business uh of a over a ecommerce platform that we developed from scratch. I worked there for over 10 years and I did every possible job in software. I believe I was full stack developer support Q A uh customer success. I did everything during those years. After that, uh I was already married with one of my colleagues and well, things started to get very difficult in Venezuela. Uh personal security levels were non-existent.

So we decided that it was time for us to, to migrate and to live. So that is when I started a couple of years of traveling and working remotely and uh through South America. And after that, uh we came here to Europe and we decided to have a baby. I am a mom of a beautiful baby boy. And after being a mom for a full time mom for around three years, I decided that I really wanted to resume my professional career. So I started uh preparing and studying and uh getting into interviews and that is where I landed a job here at Clore as a finance software engineer.

Wow, what a great story. Thank you, Cindy Tao. Now to you, can you introduce yourself and give us tell us a little bit about your background.

Yeah. Sure. So, hi, I'm Tao. Um, my background is in product management. Um, maybe if I go way back, like, I'm originally from Romania. That's where I grew up. That's where I went to school. And then when I, you know, when I turned 88 and 18 and I finished high school, I moved to Germany to study, I studied information systems there. So I did my bachelor in Germany, my master. And then also during that time, I, I did another study program. It's particular to, to Munich. It's called um Center of Digital Technology and um management. That was a really nice program where I started to work with cross functional teams and cross functional people. And then, um you know, after I finished university and finished all these study programs, I actually joined Salon. So it was like four years ago. And, you know, for the last four years, I've been, um I've been responsible for various product launches. Um And I've been working in, you know, Munich in Germany for the last four years. And now, recently, actually, four months ago, as I started working on a new product together with Olena. Actually, um I, I had opportunity to relocate to New York and I'm actually in the New York office right now. So I'm gonna turn my screen so everybody can see my view.

I'm in one of

my green rooms.

Wow. I have a I have a really nice view over Manhattan. Um, it's, it's really nice to also just come into the office every day here. It's like, it's, it's an amazing view. But yeah, it's a bit about me.

Wow, thank you. Um, and, and tell us, uh, what brought you to product management.

Yeah. So I was thinking, um, I had, like, I tried all types of things, like I didn't, you know, when I, when I was in school or university, I had no clue about product management. I didn't know what it is, right. I always had some inclination towards the more technical classes. Maybe, you know, I don't know why, like my parents were engineers, like engineers, my brother or maybe it's just like it's what I knew. And then um as I, as I in Germany, when you, you know, when you're at university, there's actually most students work part time, something, you know, related to their study program. So I tried everything I could throughout my study program, I tried even something in finance.

Then I started, I tried data analytics. Then I tried being a um quality insurance engineer for apps. Then I tried to be, I thought I wanted to be a software engineer and I tried doing that. And then I think throughout all of these things that I was trying out, like I always felt like I'm more curious about like the user needs, why I'm doing this task that I'm doing what is it impacting? And, and then eventually I discovered there's a role called product management where you're like, you're still close to technology, but you're like, responsible for figuring out that you're solving the right problem and you, you're working together with a team of engineers and that's how, like I was like, OK, I have to try this as well.

Let's see if it sticks. And then, um, I've been in product for the last four years. So I think uh I definitely found, you know, what fits me the best. So, yeah, that's

fine. What a story. Thank you. And Cindy now to you, uh can you tell us what brought you into engineering?

Uh Well, I think that I got inspiration from an uncle of mine. He was a mechanical engineer and I remember being 12 years old and he will come to me and explain some project of him uh designing some engine of sorts and trying to explain to me all the physics and math behind it. And I really love of, you know, uh all the ways that he will try to find solutions for these problems, you know. And so I, I find solutions in an optimal way. I really like that, you know, to solve problems in an optimal way. And on the other hand, I have my dad, he was an oil painter artist. Uh so I grew surrounded by all his paintings and brushes and oils and he would tell me about how to solve another set of problems, you know, and how to train your eye to see things in different ways. So I really love that these two words were very different, but they have like creativity, like a common theme, you know, in them. And then, uh when I was 18 years old, I got access for the first time to a computer.

And I remember that day I was like, in awe, you know, about the whole thing. I was navigating on internet, uh, opening, uh, uh, my first account of hot mail and I was like, uh, mesmerized, I couldn't believe, you know, and, uh, I got very curious about computers. Of course, at that point I couldn't understand that this was going to be the future at all. But fast forward when I got to decide in my life, what I was going to do for college for me was pretty straightforward. I wanted to be a software engineer. Um, I think that another thing that really weigh in my decision was that, um, well, I, I really wanted to help my family. I mean, I grew in a home when I, I had everything but everything was limited, you know, um, being an engineer was something very promising to me and to help them out. So I think, yeah, that, that, that was my starting point. Ok,

thank you. Um, theo, now to you, we're switching back and forth. Actually, I, I at this point, I wanted to uh to mention so that uh Theo she's in New York City office and Cindy uh she is in uh located in Madrid uh Spain and you go to Madrid office, right? And I'm located uh in Portland, Maine. Uh I work from home. We don't have an office here but uh just wanted to showcase the international nature and like of a company. Um So on to the next question for Tao. Um can you tell us about the part of engineering teams that you're working on and about your perhaps like day to day work, what are your responsibilities are and what product you're working on?

Yeah, sure. So um I don't know how familiar the audience is with salons. So like a very high level, you know, before I talk about what I do and I think that's what you call about salon. Like we have, we're a very powerful platform and we can, you know, we plug on top of different processes that exist in organizations, right? Like finance processing, ordering process, this is manufacturing processes. And what we do is like we on the first time we truly show how to process flows and then we show you our bottlenecks and then we tell our customers, you know, what they could do to, to um to solve these problems and we also give solutions so um how to solve these problems. So we have like a very powerful product uh, with a lot of capabilities and what I'm working on right now is actually something that I call, you know, the first date with our product. Right. So, um, I'm working on a product where it's like, you know, because on the first date, like, what are the goals? Right? You want to know what is, who is this person? Are they for me? Like, do I want to pursue this further? You know, it's not, you don't go into everything in all the background, right? But it's more like getting a glimpse of, you know, what a relationship with this person could.

And um so what, what I'm working on is like, it's a product that's supposed to be, you know, showing our customers a glimpse, you know, into what salon has to offer, right? So it's, it's the very first thing that customers get to see and it's how we, you know what we do. Actually, we have like a question and answer based interface where we, you know, say these are the most common questions about your product says these are the things that you should be looking at, are this interesting for you and then customers understand. Oh, ok. So that's what our product, that's what salon is does. OK. I want to now dive deeper, you know, into these findings and, you know, touch, you know, all the functionalities of the platform and on this product, I'm working, you know, with Olena and like other colleagues of ours, they are located in um Los Angeles. Some of them, some colleagues are located in Germany, so it's very distributed. Um And now like we are, we're getting ready for launch of this product. So these days, I'm, you know, I'm I'm talking to customers getting feedback, we're planning out together like concepts, features.

Now we're also always sharing, like I'm also always sharing a communication and updates with all of our stakeholders, our management and there's also we do have some customers that use it already. So we're always trying to figure out where could we improve the funnel by looking at, you know, analytics. Um And I think what's really rewarding especially is like when I talk to customers, like just recently, I was talking to a customer and like, I think he will always stick with me. Like he was um there was this uh process lead and he was looking at the, the software and he had a smile on his face as he was like going to the product. And now I was like, wow, like it's my product is putting a smile on, you know, the user's face. Like it's, I think that that's just the most rewarding part. And generally when I talk to the customers, like when we hear their stories, like how this is improving, it's just very motivating, you know, to work and to hear that we are actually impacting um you know, our customers lives

Yeah. Ok. Thank you. And Cindy. Now, to you, same question. Can you tell us about the uh teams that you are working on the product that you are working on and uh about your working day per se?

Yeah, of course. Uh I work for the CC plus squads. Um We are building a web platform for consultancy companies to access and manage their EMS projects being the EMS. Uh what uh theo just explained the uh Corporal from Salon is the execution management system. And these uh ems will help businesses to find, you know, inefficiencies in their processes, right? And what is happening now is that consultancy companies that have been already for many years doing this, the the the same thing helping their clients to find inefficiencies in their processes.

They are now leveraging the power of this tool to, to come up with these insights and reports and information to their clients. So we're basically trying to help them to in their daily operations, access and managing these projects. Um well as a finance software engineer, uh well, a typical day will be meeting with my team uh planning over stories, helping R PM, you know, to come up with uh some uh technical implementation details, estimations. Then we, we will move on to uh implementing these features uh components. And the in our team, we work with the uh A PC API first approach and uh we are actually a very small team. We are uh four programmers or two back ends and two the front ends. So we really rely heavily on automations, you know. So for example, right now we are uh implementing cypress an open source, an open source tool uh to integrate end to end test in our project. So we are now implementing this in our pipeline. And another thing is that uh um in our front end, we use uh the angular framework. So currently we are uh implementing an state management library, then your X library. And I it's pretty, it's pretty cool. I really like it. I, I love a lot.

That's very exciting. And here I wanted to kind of create a connection. Um So I do work with Cindy um um on um uh sometimes we discuss uh what is the good like frameworks to use or the tools to use? So I'll be actually learning from her experiences of implementing Cyprus, this open source tool uh for automation testing for the project that I'm working on. So that's how I know Cindy, we collaborate and with Tao, as she mentioned, I am one of the engineers on the teams that Tao works with. We implement teo's ideas basically into the product. Um OK, thank you. Uh So our next question uh is um uh um um about uh uh women at salon um and uh your experiences uh working as a woman in tech at salon. Um a little bit of an infomercial for the company, I would say, uh what is the uh opportunities uh that you feel you're having? And um um can you tell us a little bit about uh being a woman in tech, I guess? Tell to you.

Yeah. So I think it's an interesting question and don't know exactly how to answer it. And at salon as like, I'm aware where there's a lot of initiatives we have like a community like women in tech and we can meet and, you know, have sessions. I think there's a lot of, especially even for mothers, there's a lot of advantages that Theon has to offer. I'm sure Cindy knows more about that. And I think for me, like, why I'm struggling with this question is I, if I reflect on it, like from I've been here for four years and I never felt like that me being a woman is somehow different. You know, I never had a situation and where I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm being treated differently because of my gender or like, oh, if I never had a thought in a situation was like, oh, if I hadn't been a woman, something would have been different. So I think, you know, I think Sonos is doing a pretty good job as like, you know, they have this culture of diversity and acceptance and I think, you know, people are focused more on, um you know, just being motivated, doing the best they can and people are empowered and rewarded.

And um I think I'm lucky and, you know, I've definitely heard it's not like this maybe in every company. But um I'm struggling a bit to answer because I, I never feel somehow different than anybody else at the, at the company.

I love this answer. Yes. Thank you. That's the best answer one could give actually. Uh But um sorry, uh Cindy on to you uh with the same question, um your experience of working at salon. Uh Did you notice anything different uh from a perspective of women being, oh, sorry of being a woman in tech, working at salon.

Well, I, I couldn't agree more with, with Dell, you know, I mean, after a year working here, uh you know, this company has a value that is the best in wins. And after a year, I could really see that this is something important, you know, in, in, in the whole community that we're here. I mean, and uh when you go to work, you can you, you all, you all, you only find people that want to be of help and they support each other. And I haven't encountered any, anything related, you know, to this or, or AAA disadvantage of me being a woman. And I feel very, very happy and very proud of a company that, that has this, you know, like these, these values. And another thing that I could remark is that there are a lot of resources and spaces that the company built, you know, for people to, to talk about, you know, stereotypes or uh trying to uh uh gather, you know, feedback of everyone and try to build, you know, and iterate always, you know, on everything and build a better environment.

And uh so I really love this about this company. They, they really put an effort to, to make everything and everyone welcome and to build a, a very diverse um space for all. Um Yes.

Um uh I would also like to mention um uh two things. Uh First is that, so I'm an engineer on the team which is based in L A. Most of the folks are in Los Angeles office and there uh I have uh four friends, women engineers. They also work as a staff, software engineer, senior engineers and there is like four other women working on uh on different teams as engineers. So uh I do not feel alone as an engineer in my position. Uh So that's thing number one, I also wanted to mention uh the generous family leave uh that salon has um for us, it's generous uh six months of uh full pay time off like after you start your family. Um And uh also there is an interesting uh program with a very catchy name called Salo Baby. Salon is Baby, I guess uh if you were to have like a family edition uh during the time when you were working at salons, uh salon will be generous enough to give your child uh some shares in in their own account as a special account for the baby so that they can have uh future kind of like money to start their um uh education.

Uh So that, that's kind of interesting, so great family leave here in the US and uh in Europe. Uh and uh and the cow baby program. Uh Also, I would like to mention that um just uh most recently, uh last week, we had like a great meet up like a kickoff for uh women in tech at salons. And we had attendance from leadership. The uh CEO of the company was in the room listening to our feedback, um giving his feedback and it, it's uh I feel like it's, it's an open conversation and um people do really care uh to create like an open and diverse environment. OK. Um So now on to our next uh question. Uh So um Tao to you, um what advice would you give to someone who is interested in uh uh career in product management uh or in tech or like overall uh in product? Uh And in particular if they're looking to um apply for a position at salons.

Yeah. And so I think what, but, you know, depending on what your background is and what you're currently doing, what your role is. Um maybe you're currently not in a product role and you want to move into a product role or considering it. I think I, what I, since I tried so many things before landing on product, I think um my advice would be like just seek out opportunities where you can work in cross functional teams, like seek out opportunities, we can work with people from different background, different roles because I think that's when you kind of understand.

OK, so there's, you know, especially when you work with engineer and design, if you have an opportunity like that, you can figure out is the product or something for me, like for me, when I first worked with like a cross functional team was when I realized, OK, I think I found what I wanna do.

Uh I think this is, you know, this is how I can contribute to the team. Um And I think that's really important and in general, like just, you know, be curious and try things out like, you know, give, especially like, for example, in our at salon, a lot of people transition into product from different roles, right? So if you have opportunities like at your company, like give it a try. Um you know, see if there's options um to switch internally. And um I think in general, like, or, or more specific now on salon is what I think, you know, I think what it's important if you want to be like in, in product, it's alone is like we are a company that we are very fast paced. We work very agile. Things change a lot, we keep up with the trends. We always, we never, you know, like we always want the next best thing. Like we always want to be to improve. So I think in an environment like that, it's really important to, you know, be adaptable to change, right?

Like things change fast, you have to change topics, change priorities and also what I learned is, and I think it's a general advice, I think it is, you know, a lot of good product managers have this, it you focus on the problems, right? Not the solutions, like it's very easy to like, you know, fall in love with a, with a solution and then uh but I think it's more important to obsess over the problem and like understanding the real problem focusing on the problem and you know, solutions come and go change, iterate the world changes though, don't you know, stick to the solution.

Um Yeah, I think that's when you can also thrive in an environment like Toon. And also I think in Toons, we have a very good culture of people like going above beyond and above, right? Like if there's something, you know, and maybe it's not particularly your role or like everybody jump in on things, do anything they can to see things move forward and especially in products, I'm saying that we want to be fast and iterative um there's this mentality of everybody just like wants to go above and beyond and do whatever they can to make this a success.

So I think those are like some of the things that I I'm seeing in, in my colleagues and, and products

as well. Thank you and Cindy now on to you. Um uh What type of advice would you give to somebody who is uh trying to um start a job in engineering uh or uh if they're looking to join salons, any tips and tricks that you can.

Yeah, I mean, uh I think that what has helped me a lot uh is being, um, I mean, like it's important to focus on growing your skills, you know, that is always important, but I believe it's important as well to get, get to know yourself, do regular self assessments of yourself, you know, have a, an updated list of your strengths and your weaknesses.

And what is that, that made you unique and that you can bring of value to the table and having this clear, you know, is going to give you the confidence to go and be brave and be bold and navigate through a difficult situation, challenging situations. And another thing that I would say is uh learn to manage stress, you know, uh get to know what are the things that are gonna help you to power uh of your energy and do those things, you know. And yeah, and I agree with you. Absolutely. I mean, follow your curiosity. I mean, that is so important to, to have purpose and to be inspired by it. So, yeah, I uh that would be my advice.

OK. Uh Thank you. And I guess I will uh try to answer the same question as well. I am uh software engineer. Um uh And uh I, I gave AAA talk this morning um for those of you who attended, where I also talked about my career. It was an autobiographical one where I was trying to give um some advice and uh share my uh learning and thoughts on my 10 years of uh career working as a software engineer and uh how I um progressed in my career uh changed companies, um changed teams. Um And uh one of the advices like for finding your very first uh uh position is don't give up uh expect that it will be a lengthy process. Um Just, just take it as it is that it will take a while uh for you to uh do a lot of interviews and to hone your skill with each interview you are um honing your skill of telling others how useful uh and um uh like creative, you would be as a member of that team uh for, for, for or the companies that you are applying for with every interview you're becoming better uh at, at telling people the story, at answering their uh technical questions or what have you.

Um, so just don't give up and take it as a, uh, as a quantity will turn into quality by doing a lot of interviews. Um, eventually you will get to the point where, um, uh, you will get, uh, a job offer. Um, so, uh, my, my, my advice is, uh, persevere, don't give up and just expect that it will be, um, nothing is easy in this life. Um, ok. Uh And I guess we're uh a any closing remarks um uh from Tao Cindy. Um uh So I, I guess uh one last comment that I want to make is that uh our colleague, uh Katie, she'll be sharing the linkedin profiles for all three of us in chat. So if you would like to reach out and you have further questions, please do so. Uh Also don't forget that salon has a booth uh here at the conference and you can um uh come and uh uh learn more about slowness and talk to um uh some of us there and other engineers and product managers and designers and uh other uh tech, technical um uh disciplines will be present there as well.

Uh So have a great rest of your conference. Thank you, everybody.

Thank you. Bye

bye.