Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us. Um And thanks for the opportunity to speak on this panel. We're really excited to be here um And to bring the topic of women in cybersecurity to the forefront of this fantastic event. Um My name is Bronwyn Hudson.I'm a social media manager at TI C which is a cybersecurity company. Um And I'm also the host of cybersecurity Stand up, which is our weekly linkedin Live and Podcast. And today I'm joined by two of my amazing Coworkers, Crystal Pish and Laura Kenner. And today we're gonna be talking about the past, present and future of women in cybersecurity. Um We want you to walk away from this panel with a couple of different things. Uh One is a sense of encouragement and empowerment. We welcome you to connect with us on linkedin uh during or after this event and to reach out with any questions you have about the cybersecurity industry. We're really looking forward to um supporting other women who are looking to break into this field. Um Two, we want you to walk away with a real glimpse into some of the common challenges that women face in this industry. Um and really likely tech at large and we want to share our lived experience with you. And thirdly, we want you to leave with some actionable insights. Um So if you're someone who's looking to show up for women in the cybersecurity industry, but you don't know where to start. This panel is also absolutely for you.

So we're gonna start by kind of rewinding the clock a little bit and uh talking about origin stories. Um And by way of introduction, so Laura, one of the first things I had actually heard about you and I joined up six was your prowess as a technical writer. But I later learned that that's just a fragment of your story. Um Can you tell us about what you do now and also how you got to where you are?

Uh Sure. Um I'm a career changer. I'm new to this field. I'm new to tech cybersecurity all of it. Um I was formerly medical secretary did medical transcription that sort of work. I've also worked in restaurants the whole deal. Um Basically, I had a little bit of a midlife awakening and realized that I just wasn't going anywhere. I wasn't happy. I felt very stuck in those kind of roles. Um And didn't really see any way to work my way up. So I went back to school and got a degree in cybersecurity. Um And it's the best decision I've ever made. Um I was attracted to tech and it, and cybersecurity specifically because I feel like this is the future. Like I wanted to be part of the future. I was tired of being stuck and it's forever evolving. I'm always learning something. I'm never stagnant and that's what I really love about it.

So great. Um Your experience is, is super exciting and I'm really excited to talk about um a couple more details about your sort of career path as well a little bit later. Um because I hope that people who are watching this know that it's when it comes to cybersecurity, it's never too late to change years. Um And that acquiring technical skills and certifications as Laura has done is like absolutely available to you no matter where you are and we'll give you some more details on that later too. Um But Crystal, I think you had a very different path into this field. Can you give us the rundown on that?

Yeah, mine was really nonlinear and I feel very lucky that I landed here. Um I'm from a very rural part of South Texas. I had my daughter when I was 16 years old. So I, and unlike Laura, I was actually, I feel trying to run towards something my whole life, always trying to chase the thing that was moving and stay ahead of the curve just to get away from where I was. So cybersecurity to me was very and tech was very obviously the future as well. Just like what Laura said that you could see that that's where um all the jobs were going to be. So I, my, I started out as a community organizer. Um I studied political science in college because I thought, you know, I didn't think the sciences and stem was available to me um either and just kind of stumbled into this after honestly, I went to an engineering boot camp and just was always just trying to make my way somewhere financially stable and that provided uh career stability as well.

And this just ended up working out and then it turns out I have a huge passion for technology. So

win, win, I guess. Absolutely. Um My path uh on a personal note has been that I have a master's degree in linguistics. Um And I got into technical writing and my, my real passion is making complex topics available to a broad audience. So I sort of forged into social media because I like and I like to have fun on social media. So I've sort of found a little bit of AAA niche down for myself. Um But my hope is that people watching this can hear even just a little, you know, a tiny bit of insight into our stories and see yourself in some way and one of those trajectories, if not all of them, um because there's a lot of paths to get into this field. Um Laura, you briefly touched on this, but I wanted to ask you a little more directly. Can you tell us one thing that you love about your job? Now? Maybe something that's, that's specific to cybersecurity.

Oh, gosh. Um, so much I just, there is, there's um the threat research blogs are fun to work on because I'm right there as the hot as the fresh news comes out, they just found something new or something that has evolved from something. And like, I'm right there in the hot seat as this new news is coming out. And I love reading those though. I will admit I'm not an engineer and I don't fully understand everything that they do in their analytical um breakdown, but I am able to get the gist of it. I have enough um education and training to understand what's going on and to sort of realize the importance of what's happening. And yeah, to me, that's, that's just fun to be on the forefront of that. So I just, I take the research and help turn it into a blog or a press release that's um consumable by everyone. So I try to help make sure the story is there as well as the analysis.

Love that crystal. I feel like I, I immediately want to ask you the same question because I know that storytelling is something that's important to, to all of us. Uh Can you tell us one thing that you love about your role at the moment,

it's absolutely the same thing. It's being really close to all of the like, hottest changes in technology and then getting that to translate that. So everyone understands what's so cool about it because I think technology is the coolest thing in the world really. Like, it's, it makes up our entire physical economic and every other part of our infrastructure. Right? It's incredible and not everyone realizes that. So getting to story tell and translate and, and see the spark in people's eyes when they understand why this stuff matters is the best thing in the world to me.

Yeah, great feeling. I could completely agree. Um One thing we uh talked about previous to this panel was that uh there, there are so many assumptions that are made about women on a daily basis, but specifically in cybersecurity. And I'm sure like in tech in general, um which is this idea that as women, we are more naturally capable of doing things like facilitation of having good communication. Um Even, you know, somehow you're better at things like note taking uh that ends up feeling like a really weird amount of pressure because not only are a lot of us, not very naturally good at these kind of things, but it's the assumption that all those things are actually our jobs when it's kind of not.

Um And what II I wanted to point that out because uh cybersecurity is like many other fields in tech, a very male dominated role. Um It's not a, an uncommon experience to be one of the only women in the room, if not the only woman. Um Just some stats for a little bit of context that I want to provide women currently hold about um a quarter, 25% of cybersecurity jobs globally. Um And about a 3rd, 34% is the actual number of senior leadership roles within the industry. Um And these stats are even more skewed when it comes to any kind of racial demographic divide. Um But I want to transition into talking about like what's happening right now in cybersecurity, the actual sort of present moment because stats can only reveal so much, you can find so many more, you know, talking points when it comes to stats online. But we want to talk about the sort of like lived experience. And the main take away that I want to emphasize here is that we need you, we need you in this industry um like really desperately. Um And I want to be able to provide some sort of like points about how to do, how to develop a plan for allyship. Um because we really do need a more diverse cybersecurity fund.

Um And there's a huge variety of jobs that are actually available in this industry. Um But Crystal, I wanted to ask you if you can speak to why diversity is really, really important in cybersecurity not only sort of for an ethical impetus here but for security, for a business front. Yeah, if you could talk to that.

Yeah. Absolutely. One of the things I'm most passionate about is that diversity, equity and inclusion is not even remotely about tokenism or it's not a brand thing, it's not a marketing effort. It's a security imperative as well as a business imperative. And I truly deeply believe that organizations who are slower to catch on to that are going to be at a severe competitive disadvantage because the number one issue facing cybersecurity right now is a shortage of talent. Right? So we have so many roles to fill and we do, we don't have people who have the skill set or at least we're not letting the people who may have the skill set enter the field right now. And we're definitely, we certainly don't know how to train them up to be inclusive, to make them feel comfortable to, to recognize their talent. So there's some issues in hiring and staffing right now, but there's a wave of the next generation coming and it's, it's truly deeply diverse.

It's young, it's nontraditional, it's nonlinear and it's gonna take over these roles are here for you. Um Many companies are catching on the ones who haven't caught on. Don't, don't take it personally, don't let it get to you. Just keep trying and you're gonna get here and, and it's truly a security imperative. So I got a little on my soapbox but the other thing is um look, Attackers and hackers and nation state actors, they are diverse, right? If you're, if you have one guy running your security, um who has no idea how Chinese hackers operate, like you're at a competitive disadvantage as well as a security disadvantage. The more voices that are in the room with the diversity of perspectives and problem solving techniques and experiences, the more secure you're gonna be because right now hacker, there's six figure salaries posted on the dark web for hackers. Um If you're not making space for uh inclusive, diverse talent, cool, um you're probably gonna lose them to the hackers who are willing to do it or the organizations who are so little long winded, but that is my strong belief in the future.

Yeah, I'm, I'm right there with you. Um And I, I want to also emphasize that there are many ways to get involved in this industry. Not only are there a lot of different career paths as to, you know, to your point crystal of like the nonlinear um way of arriving. Um But you also don't have to stop because this is an ever evolving and ever expanding field. Um New attacks are literally happening every single day. Um And Laura, you're someone who I find really inspiring because you're clearly dedicated to not only like lifelong learning, kind of an abstract idea, but you have obtained so many certifications and you've been able to give like so many, I mean, like tips about who to, who to listen to on youtube.

Can you tell us a little bit about, um, what it's like to get these certifications? Maybe you have some favorites, some recommendations.

Um, yes, definitely. I, not only the degree, getting a degree was a personal decision for me. I felt like I needed to finish the degree, but I have discovered that most of my courses in the degree program were directly related to certifications in the industry. Um The first certification I ever got was ac CN A um Cisco certified networking associate which turns out I don't use today. Um And it did not end up in a networking role, but that was hard. That was really hard. Um For someone coming from a completely non tech background, it was like learning Greek to me. Um But I took the courses I powered through and I finally took the exam and I have to say taking the certification exams, it's really, it's um hard to psych yourself up for because it's like they're expensive for one thing. Like you fail this time. Uh It's gonna cost you to take it again and some of them don't allow you to take it again for like six months a year. Like it could put your track on hold for a while if you do not pass the first time around. So it's, you know, no pressure. Right. So it is intimidating. But when I did it and I came out of there and I passed, I was just elated and like, I'm like, yes, I can do this.

Like I, for the first time in my life I've proven to myself that I could take on something completely different than I'd ever done before. Learn it well enough and pass it and get that first start under my belt. So I just kept going from there. Like I needed to like there's so much to learn in cybersecurity. And, you know, one thing I have learned is you've got to narrow your path. You can't, not everybody can do everything. You know, there's pen testers, there's analysts, there's engineers, there's marketers, it turns out um that's where I landed. I didn't even know it existed. So I just keep plugging away and I wouldn't say I have so many certifications right now. I currently have um the comp Tia net plus and SE plus and I plan to continue those. I, I'm working on a CCS K cloud security Alliance certification and we'll see where I go from there. But there are a lot of free and cheap resources online. I love Professor Messer on youtube Messor. Professor Messer. He's fantastic for the comp Tia Net plus A plus and SEC plus, which are a great starting place for somebody who's never been in it or technology at all. You have to learn a language. You have to understand how computers work. You have to understand how they communicate or you can't understand cybersecurity is sort of the stepping stone you need. So that's a free resource.

And if you can sit there and watch some Professor Mess or youtube videos every night, you'll start getting it in your brain, you'll get there if you want it. That's just one example. But there's so many resources. So many.

Yeah, I ha I happen to know that you uh may or not have written a blog on this topic. Can you tell people what's in that, where to find it?

I did. I was happy to, to recently have a chance to share my knowledge of these uh free and cheap certification training programs as well as just general cybersecurity knowledge. And I wrote a blog for optics. You can go to optics.com, go to our blog. You'll see me, Laura Kenner as an author, just click on me. You'll see what I've written. But one of the blogs was very specifically about starting your cybersecurity journey and finding free and inexpensive resources to get going.

I have found that blog incredibly useful. I just have to plug it again and I'll plug it any chance I get because it, it's seriously, it's, I think what about it is really great too, is that it's really helpful to have essentially a personal recommendation, like someone who has checked out a lot of these resources because the reality is there's, there's a ton of free information, um, and expensive courses and boot camps available.

But, um, to know like that it's coming from someone who's, who's really done it and has a personal recognition is really useful. So I, I really do highly recommend that uh that material if you're looking to get a foot in the door. Um So I also want to uh emphasize that there is a lot of opportunity in this field. Um I do not come from a, a tech background myself. Um But I'm here thriving, you know, I want to emphasize that there are lots of doors that can be opened. Um And I also want to transition a little bit to talking about the future because there are a lot of challenges that we face um in this industry um that we'll talk about in a little bit more detail, but I want to be able to pivot really quickly and talk about what we can do to be making things better as well.

Um And while in some ways, the, the thesis of let's let's help women in cybersecurity is basically like, oh really would like everyone to be decent humans. That would be a great place to start. Uh The reality is that it takes a lot of work, it takes a lot of self awareness, it takes attention um to undo few assumptions that we didn't even know that were there. Um Because we live in a patriarchal society, we all have unconscious bias about race, about gender. Um And it takes a lot of work to undo those um even ourselves, honestly, the, the truth that we're telling ourselves are actually lies, that kind of thing. Um So I want to pivot to uh some, some tips that we can provide to our audience um kind of no matter who they are about like how to do that. Um And one of the things that I would like to start off by saying is that um I'm a, I'm pretty bubbly happy person, you know, I, I love to, to bring the vibes. Um but there's this big assumption that empathy and that emotional and intelligence are something that like all women have or do and that they have availability for it.

And so often people will assume that that's actually like my biggest strength when the reality is I have a lot more to offer. And in fact, I do not have capacity to serve everyone else's emotional needs. Crystal. Can you jump in on this one too? Because I know it's something you've experienced as well.

Yeah, I mean, I've experienced it in a lot of ways. I, I think back to um whenever I was initially trying to break into a more technical role and the leader above me was saying, well, you're just, you're so good at people, you should just do what you're good at, right? Which is people And I thought, well, yeah, I guess I'm good at people. I've never really thought that was my number one strength. I actually think it's my technical capacity and my ability to learn has always been, um, what's gotten me through life. So I never really considered that for myself, but in the space we're in where maybe there, there's a ton of technical capacity unless people capacity, I kind of, you kind of get pigeonholed into that. And then on top of that, yeah, you do tend to be and I don't mind necessarily, but you do tend to be maybe um a therapist at times for everyone around you. Um And sometimes that's ok. It's people I have built trust with and I care deeply about and that and that works out. But sometimes other times it's maybe people who just assume I'm willing to take on certain levels of care or emotional labor in the workplace.

Um that I'm not really able to because I do have to reserve my energy for my family. Um So, so yeah, that's how I've experienced.

Yeah, I think um Laura I'd love to hear if you've experienced this as well. And, and how so

um I have been lucky in the tech field in that my first job in tech in cybersecurity was with Te and I found it to be a very positive experience in a supportive environment. So I feel fortunate that I've landed in the right place. Um, I'm not saying it's perfect or anything but in general it's been a very positive experience. Um, I do think, yes, we all have to like, we all have blinders on. We've all grown up in society in our own corners of it. Right. We have different blinders but it is hard to look outside of that and try to see the bigger picture and try to see what's really happening. Like, um, oh, gosh, what am I trying to say? I just lost it. We got it to take over blinders. You not if you look around the room and there's only one woman in your workplace in your space. Um She's not your therapist, like you said, she's not your mom, she's not your secretary, right? She has a job to do just like you do. And yes, it is being a good human. But it's also recognizing that you might have some assumptions about a person just from looking at them. And this is not just with male, female, this is across the board any way you want to group people. There's always biases and you've got to look past that and you have to challenge yourself. I'm, I'm speaking to myself also as I'm saying this out loud, right? Because I know I make assumptions all the time that I should not.

And I try to be aware of it and challenge myself to look past it.

I I com I completely agree with you Yeah. Crystal. Go

ahead. I realized that you may have asked for a tip at one point and I didn't answer that. But I want to say I did from watching Laura. So I will say I've worked with a lot of exceptional product marketers and Laura still. And I've been doing this for 10 years. So it's a little different. I entered, I was the first woman in an engineering department at like 20 years old. Um So in 10 years ago, so it's a little different. But I've seen Laura come in and just, she's one of the most exceptional product marketers I've seen. And so I will say what I've witnessed that she did that I struggled with a lot and I, I did do it too, but watching it from the outside, it's just you have, you're able to have more compassion and see it differently and admire it more and be more in awe when you watch someone else do it than when you're brave on your own.

You don't always see your own bravery and courage. But I see Laura speaking up and being brave and courageous in moments and speaking up at times that I looked or seems so challenging, right? And she's just not afraid, she's just so straightforward. She just says it like it is, we need to get this done regardless of how someone might respond and always tactfully don't get me wrong. But that bravery and the courage and the ability to speak up. I really think that's for me, probably the number one way to succeed in this field is that there's probably never, you're going to be in where you have the right. Well, I want to say that you might not always feel you have the right to speak. Maybe you're not, you're never gonna be the smartest one in the room or whatever vague parameters exist to say who has the right to speak up? Always speak up. You always have the right, your voice always deserves to be heard. You deserve to be in the room. You belong there, you wouldn't be there so speak up. That would be my tip.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, I, I'll pivot and give sort of the um the inverse tip in a way which is that if you are not a woman and you're in the room and there is a woman who has not spoken yet in the meeting, maybe ask her what she thinks, you know, take, take action in there and open the door proverbially for her.

Uh And also that if someone interrupts her, which is uh incredibly common uh in general for everyone, but statistically more common and for women and you see that happen, which now that I've said, hopefully you uh I mean, hopefully you won't but you probably will um repeatedly uh take action there as well.

Uh say, oh you interrupted Laura. Laura, what were you saying? And, and pivot back, that's a really like actionable way that you can, you can support women and, and genuinely like enact this idea that they have a right to be there. Their opinion is valued and you want to hear it and by leading through example, like that, we can really uh we can help each other in the room there. Um I want to provide a couple more of these sort of uh you know, case by case situations that are like really common but, but we can stand up for ourselves and also provide some like actionable points. Um One thing I, I wanna touch on briefly is what it's like to uh to be a, a parent. Um I am not a parent. Um but I know both you are and you're welcome to speak to this however much you want. Um because one thing that I've noticed is that your schedule changes a lot, your workload changes a lot, um like your whole family dynamic changes a lot. And also there are a lot of um sort of trickle down policies when it comes to working remotely, when it comes to paid parental leave, when it comes to the division of labor.

Um Either of you want to jump in on that one,

I will say remote work seems to have opened up a lot of opportunity for people to have better work life balance, especially if they're caring for Children. Parenthood is hard for everyone, moms and dads. Um, it's not easy raising a little human in this world and it's a lot, it's a lot of emotional, mental, physical energy completely outside of work. Right. And we're still trying to give 100% at work. So we're giving, parents are giving 200% a day no matter what. Right. Um, but remote work has made it easier for those of us who can work in those kind of roles. Obviously, not every job can you do remotely? But if you can, my child could stay home for the day if he's sick and I can still function and still get most of my work done. Right. And I don't have to take a day off of work. I don't have to burn PTO or whatever. Um, it just, it just, and it gives a little more flexibility. I could work around his schedule, his needs, doctor's appointments and so on. Just makes life easier for parents. It really does. Yeah,

definitely Crystal would have found.

Yeah, I totally want to echo what Laura said. I actually found a remote job prior to COVID because as a single parent, um, that was the, the only realistic way I could work for an awesome company, an awesome tech company. But also, aside from before I even knew where I was gonna land, just knowing it wasn't even negotiable for me because I was missing out on so much time with my daughter driving. To the office. 9 to 5. Really? I wouldn't get to be in traffic until 6 p.m. I'd have to pick them up from the after school care. And, you know, by the end you get home and you just want to sleep, you're so exhausted. So all the years I spent, um, maybe not as present or as close to my daughter as I would have liked whenever I got to work from home, I got to do that right. Where now I say like I'm a stay at home working mom and I love it because every like every day after school, my daughter's best friend comes over, right? Because her mom works and she needs somewhere to stay and they can walk home and, and be here and I'm, I'm there for them. Um And so I would say definitely remote work is huge for parents and moms.

Um Also if you're a manager or if you're even if you're a coworker, like, understand that parents probably do need different schedules. I know moms who don't work 8 to 11 a.m. but work, you know, 5 to 2 a.m. five PM to 2 a.m. So be, be flexible with scheduling as well.

Yeah, that's something that um you're right, managers and employers in general can uh can take action around. Um you know, it's not just about like hiring more women, it's about providing inclusive and accessible uh policies that, that, I mean, often it takes a couple of conversations to be able to say what would be the most useful thing for you. How can I make your schedule better? Because the reality is like women have a lot of grit. We are showing up with a lot of resilience already under our belts. Um, and we will tell you what will work for us because we, we know we don't have room for error in a lot of ways. Um, One of the thing I want to touch on too is that, that employers, um but also coworkers can, can help here is that the issue of, of wage discrepancy is still rampant um globally, but also in this industry. Um And it's exacerbated by people not talking about it.

Like, how do you know if your male coworker is earning 20 grand more than you are uh for the same job unless they tell you or unless your job has some kind of like incredible transparency policy where all wages are posted online. So, um I also just encourage uh men and coworkers to start those uncomfortable conversations in the same way that you same way that you would be like, hi, you're welcome here, you know, provide this inclusive space, start a conversation and just tell someone how much you make it might change their life, truly.

Um Not something that's like, you know, kind of practical numbers game here. Um We have three minutes left of this wonderful panel time has gone by incredibly quickly. Um And I want to actually touch on something uh that Susie uh in the Q and A session here um pointed out which is just a comment about being your authentic self in the workplace, which is incredibly crucial. Um And as we sort of like conclude, I want to emphasize that we are absolutely trying to do that um in this industry, uh crystal, I mean, without a little bit of a wrap up, can you provide a little bit of insight on what it means to be your authentic self?

OK. I'm still figuring it out every day. Um I think it's always challenging. It's always scary. There are lines and boundaries you have to follow because what it means still sometimes you have certain boundaries around work and personal. Um But for me, it means being kind and compassionate to the people around me in a way that I genuinely feel. Um it means also showing my tattoos at work, which I think for the longest time, I wouldn't have shown my tattoos. Um And then I found out people thought it was cool and I was like, oh wait, like I can actually connect with people more deeply because um when I show my tattoos, people ask me quite about them or they tell me they like them or it just opens up conversations with people from across cultures, across um roles and departments um that are way more authentic and vulnerable I think, than I would have otherwise and people don't know that side of me unless they show it.

Um, or they, you know, so, so I guess that's mine. Like authenticity has actually opened up something deep and real and personal at, at work for me. And it's the ability to actually connect with others as well as not carry so much emotional and cognitive load by trying to split who I am completely. Um So I think those are my that. I think

so. Well said, uh Laura, do you want to add on to that with our minute remaining?

Oh, no, no, but I mean, no, you just, you should be able to be who you are come as you are. Do your good work, use your good skills, use your brain and be valued for that and that's all that should matter.

Well said. Yeah, absolutely. Um So as we conclude here, thank you so much to our audience who has joined us. Um We have a couple of places you can head after this. Um One is to basically all of Laura's incredible blogs on the optics website. I really do highly recommend them. There's a couple with incredible resources more about her story um and deeper dives there. Um Please connect with us on linkedin. Love to hear from you. Um Reach out. We, we want to help you uh enter this field in any way we can and also stay tuned for a blog from me um on for, for more actions for allies in this um space. We've got a lot more uh suggestions that we'd love to give you. Um So keep an eye out for that and thank you so much again for joining us and enjoy the rest of the conference. Thank you.

Thank you. Bye.