We are thrilled to be here today on the up leveling your leadership tip, tips and tricks on how to boost your impact. Um I couldn't be more excited to be joined by Jennifer Shiv, a senior director of engineering at PDO.And that, whoa Nadine, uh mckenzie Reed, um head of technology in at West Markets. These women are truly some of the most inspiring out there. The way that they lead through authenticity, humanity and through kind of trusting themselves has truly been a journey um that I've been very fortunate to witness. So, um I had asked these two women to share their inspiring stories. We all learn better and we rise together um as we hear other stories and see new possibilities for ourselves. So, um without um further ado, I would love to start this panel um and asking one of you to start with telling us a little bit about your leadership journey. Who wants to go

first? I nominate Jennifer. Oh,

perfect. All right. Well, I'm happy to go first. Um So again, my name is Jennifer Shuck. I'll tell you a little bit about my leadership journey. Um So I first became a manager in my mid twenties. So, um I consider that on the young side, I am no longer in my mid twenties, I will admit. Um but I started my leadership journey in my mid twenties, leading a small group of contractors through what was really a tumultuous time, they really weren't working very well together as a team. And so my first um my first opportunity out of the gate to um really make a difference at the company that I worked out at the time was um a real challenge, right? Figuring out the people dynamics of a team of contractors. Um So I would have continued down that path. I really enjoyed the struggle, um and figuring out learning new skills on really how to shape this team. And so I would have kept on that track. Um but um basically I wanted to move from Phoenix, Arizona where I was living to Raleigh North Carolina in order to start a family and to do that, I needed to take an IC role.

Um And I think, you know, I wanted to pause here and just say, I think that that's something that women do, uh is um, pause and take a step back for their family, um and put their family first. And so that was something that I did at that time. Um So many years later, um as my daughters were in high school, my leadership journey continued um here at the company I'm at now PDO. Um So I was working as a backend engineer and I was a technical leader first. As opposed to a people manager, I was a, a technical leader. And um I was asked, I was doing a, a great job, I guess as a technical leader. And so, um I was asked to lead a brand new team uh to um basically build out a brand new product. And I thought, what a great challenge, I'm ready to get back into that management track. Um So I eagerly said yes. Um from there, I've quickly moved from manager to director to senior director um building out teams and organizations. Um and later leading a team that's working on our flagship product. Um And really, each time an opportunity presented itself, I thought about the challenges that I would face and, and ran in head first. Um So, you know, and frankly being a mother taught me as much about management as any management class I've ever taken.

And if you've been a mother, you know, that there's not a job that can scare you more than that one. So, um that's my leadership journey.

Thank you. That's awesome. And I, I love how you um kind of your relationship to challenges and kind of how you started off the journey saying the struggles were there and kind of how you shifted your mindset to now just jumping into the cha to the challenges. Um and not feeling the struggles as much. So, um Thanks for that, Nadine, tell us about your journey.

So my journey is a little bit different. I am originally from Jamaica and I, you know, I did undergrad there and I came here for grad school and then started working and started a family fairly early. And, you know, to Jennifer's point, I think that was probably my first team um because you do learn a lot of skills in, you know, within motherhood. But I have to say it was a very unconventional journey because coming from a different country with a kind of different cultural competency, you know, I was kind of taught to keep your head down, work really, really hard and you would get recognized and that's a little different here.

You have to know how to sell yourself. And there's a lot of organizational politics there, there's, there's a way to get there, but I hadn't realized that early on, I'm doing my, you know, my Jamaican thing work really hard. And I had three kids while I was working and they were always a priority. So making sure that I balance my work life was very important. So I, I spent a lot of my time just really working hard and managing without authority. I think that honed a lot of my skills too because I had to understand I didn't have supervisory um authority over anyone, but I needed to get stuff done and I you know, so that really honed my influence skills. Um And I think along the way, as I kept working hard and, and like, chipping away at stuff, I was gathering a lot of tools in my, my, my tool kit, not really knowing what to do with them, but I had all the skills there and then I, there was an opportunity at work, um the rising star program and it was, uh you know, I saw that I'm like, that looks interesting.

Women's rising star program. I'm gonna apply for it. So it's about kind of being open minded and let me just try something different. This is, you know, they, they said this helps uplift your career. So I was willing to give it um a chance. And that really opened me up to getting that game plan for how to advance my career because it is something you have to be intentional about. And again, I did not have any idea at all. But once you give me the instructions, I followed it, I, you know, I did all of the networking. I understood the importance of that, you know, where people saw networking in a negative way, like it's kissing up or it's brown nosing. I realized that that's the way you would build your brand and your credibility in the organization. So I started just following the process of this leadership training program. At the end of it, an opportunity came up and again, I'm being honest with you, I didn't sit there at my company thinking I've been here for 19 years this year and I never thought one day I'm gonna hit technology. Like I, I can't sit here and tell you I had this five year plan, 10 year plan aspiration. I had none of that. I just wanted to work hard and represent myself the best way I could and always be challenged and always learn.

So I ended up at one point in time, there was this opening for head of technology and I just happened to be talking to a head trader one day and about something totally different about my kid in college. I was asking him for some advice about a college and, you know, we're ending the call and he says, by the way, Nadine, are you gonna apply for that role? I'm like, what role are you talking about? He said the head of technology role. I'm like me. I was like, so flattered. I was like, oh my goodness, that's, he's like, why are you flattered? You'd be great at it. I never even thought about it. I came home and I'm telling my kids that night, oh, this, you Alan said the nicest thing to me today. And they're like, what did, what did he say? He's like, you should apply for this role. And I said, they said what role? He, they said, mom, there's a role and you're not applying for it. What would you tell us to do? You're applying for that role? You're not, I'm like, oh, my goodness, this was just supposed to be a casual dinner conversation and it turned out I did apply for the role and I'll tell you honestly, I applied for the role to be an advocate for my boss who was, who was currently applying for the role as well.

I figured I could go in there, give a good word for him and learn and, and introduce myself to the new leadership, you know, in case something came up that I could be a part of and, and I can tell you, I don't know if, because I went there with that type of mindset. I was so relaxed. I had the best interview of my life. I had a casual conversation and next thing I was being set up to transition into that role after like a year period of like training and ramping up to get me into the role. So I had an ally there. I had great support around me and it was, it was something II I have to say, I can't even say a dream come true because I didn't even dare to dream it, but it totally was unplanned and unconventional. And I do think, you know, for people who think that you have to have this master plan or you can't get there, you don't know how you're gonna get there. You know, I, I would just say just keep an open mind

well. And what I love about both of your stories is you both said yes to uncertainty. You both had people that were looking out for you and bringing opportunities to you and you both were like me, huh? Like it and the beauty of the mirrors of people around you supporting you into your next path. So that, that both of those stories kind of resonate with me in, in parallels without a doubt. And I think oftentimes we need those mirrors to help us on this journey um to get there. So I'm curious, what was the biggest challenge um or hurdle you had to come overcome on this path?

II, I could go first, I could say for myself, honestly, it was, it wasn't my inability to believe in myself. It was believing that the world would believe in me and accept me. I think that was my biggest hurdle. And you know, it a lot comes with, you know, your woman in leadership and in my case, a woman of color and leadership, there's a lot that comes with that and hope it'll land with people and in the back of your mind, you're like, you're always thinking will people buy into it?

It's not about whether I can do it because I will die trying like there's nothing my kids always laugh where you know, there'll be a oh mom, we can't do that because I'm like, there's, that's a suggestion, we're gonna figure out how we're gonna work this out. Like I'm just that type of person, I'm going to do whatever I need to do, especially, you know, I, if I lead the way I, I mother, it's with a fierceness and I'm going to get the job done. But there was always that part of me where, you know, I, I would take a step back and be taken a pulse of OK, how did they receive? What I just said, what are they thinking? And, and, you know, it took me a while to realize that I have to lead and, and you know, it came from some great coaching, I have to say after, from, from you after to say it, it came from some great coaching to appreciate that, you know, go with your gut, be your authentic self because that is what makes you a unique leader and, and, and leadership is unique.

I don't have to look or sound or act like anyone else because it's, it's about me so it can't be wrong. It's, it's, it's either, it's not that my leadership is wrong. I could be just in the wrong spot. I'm someplace where it's not being valued or appreciated, but it can't be my, if, if, if, if I'm saying I love myself and this is my style. I have to be ok with that.

Well, and I think it was also trusting your heart, right? You had to try just like you, you showed up with your heart for your family, you had to show up with your heart at work and allow you kind of yourself to play out fully. Um And kind of everyone around you supported you. Right. Yes.

Yeah.

Go ahead. Yeah. No, no, no, I was gonna say kind of what would you say was kind of one of the most defining moments um on this journey for you and, and making things easier.

Um So defining moments on this journey, I think, um it would be when I really had great advocates. Um So whether that advocate was you as my coach or whether the advocate was my boss or even my boss's boss is having those people that are sitting in the rooms you're not in and saying those great things about you. Um And so, you know, when, even though I doubted myself, you know, in some of the similar ways that Nadine, you know, spoke about, right? Like will people see in me, you know, the, the work that I'm putting in the effort that I'm putting in, you know, I was constantly trying to prove myself right? And I finally, one day my um my boss's boss, he looked at me and he said, you know, you don't have anything to prove right? And I'm like, no, of course I do. It's like, no, no, you don't. And so, so that was one of those defining moments that that really helped turn it from, I have something to prove to, wow, if I continue to lead uh in a way that is authentic to me.

Um Then, then, yeah, my advocates will be there for me and they will speak, you know, highly of me in these rooms that I'm not in and help me get where I need to be.

So both of you guys have referenced the relationships around you. Um and kind of the people, the the support team around you. Um I think oftentimes when we enter organizations, there's a lot of fear, right? Like this person, this person is here, this person's here is this person gonna advance further than I blah, blah, blah. Um Kind of, how did you, I think both of you guys have tremendous superpowers in building incredible relationships of advocates around you. How, how would you advise people um kind of what worked for you in building those relationships and advisers around

you? I I would say for me, I honestly am just such a friendly pe person. I love interacting with people. So it is totally natural for me to if I see someone I'll ju especially a new person at work, I'm just really aware of, you know, someone's new, they're an outsider. If you want to put it that way, they just need to see one bright face to just welcome them into the fold. Let them feel at at, at, at ease and at home and I've always been that type of ambassador no matter where I am. And it, so it just made it really easy. And I'm, you know, I'm, I, I would say just very down to earth, I'm a little girl from Jamaica, like I just will say whatever comes to mind. Sometimes it catches people off guard, but it makes for a fun conversation and I, I think people genuinely understand that I am. It, it, it's, I'm being authentic. There's nothing, there's no hidden agenda here. I just honestly just wanna say hi or, or compliment you on what a nice dress you have on today or, you know, and, and I think 11, once you're being authentic and whatever that is because then the thing is I can respect someone who isn't a pleasant person, but that's who they are.

Like, as long as you're being authentic, doesn't matter how you're showing up, but you're showing up as your genuine self, I can deal with you. I, and, and I think people appreciate authenticity. So once you, you know, you're, you're not afraid of just going in and being yourself.

I think you can build naturally great relationships with people.

So, so it wasn't about talking about the projects that built good relationships. It was actually caring about the people in front of you

and 0 100% I never talk work. I'm always in some other weekend. Did you, I'm very much and, and, and the funny thing is, you know, people, people love that, especially, you remember that their kid had something this weekend or you remember that they are interested in or whatever they're serving for lunch. Upstairs, people love to be seen and heard.

And once you can make that connection, I, it, it, I, I can tell you, it really does go a very, very long way

and doors unfold, endless doors. Yep. Yes, Jen. What was your superpower in building those relationships?

Um It's funny like it's hard to say much different than they did except I will say that the authenticity goes a long way for me though. I struggle with the personal details like that is something that is not natural to me at all to remember, you know, the number of kids people have and how old they are and what sporting events they have this weekend. And I find that, um you know, that's something that I have to work at, but when I do work at it and I put in the time and the effort that it pays back dividends. And so it's worth that effort for me. Um The authenticity comes very naturally. I don't know any other way to be uh other than direct and authentic. Um So, um I am uh from a small town so I don't know if that is part of it. Is that that small town uh girl uh who is direct and, and doesn't hold back. Um but definitely a struggle to remember those personal details and to really recall them and to use those to connect with people, but a struggle that's well worth it.

So I, I guess as I, as we think about the world of authenticity and I think that words used a lot and you guys are very clear that that's how you live your life for those that struggle at work to bring their authenticity out. Kind of what advice do you have for them around it? Kind of what have you seen work? What if kind of, how would you advise them to um connect to that,

you know, I would say do as much as you're comfortable with. It's an iterative process because I don't think I came out. As a matter of fact, my kids are there, they crack me up at one point. I declared they're gonna see my 100% authentic. They're like, ma you need to hold back some of that maybe just go like 90 like they don't need to see the full, you know, and I think it does take a little bit of time. Like for me being from Jamaica, I have an accent and I, you know, it i it can be like, it takes a lot for me to, for not to be more pronounced. And I was very cognizant of trying to speak a particular way, you know, because you do go through this process sometimes too of assimilation. You, you know, how is leadership supposed to look? How am I as a professional supposed to look? So, you know, you, you get sabotaged in that authenticity journey because you're like, if that's what that person does in that role and they're acting that way, that's how I, and then you kind of, you try it on and then it's, it doesn't work, doesn't feel right, it doesn't work.

And, you know, I, I think bit by bit you, you find you find that courage and especially if you, you connect with someone who appreciates the real you at work and you are able to have that person in meetings and in rooms with you, especially in a meeting. If you know, you know, if you could pre meet with someone, if you want to present yourself and relax or whatever, you could pre meet with someone and say, hey, can you just have my back in there? Can you help me? Because it does help to have just that one friendly face in the room. And I can tell you for me going into a room, uh, especially and I think I've just gotten a lot of practice because of circumstance. I've always gone into a room and never seen anyone that has looked like me. So it, it, it forced me a lot of times to, you know, really exercise and practice this over and over and over again. Because that's multiple meetings a day. So I'm getting a lot more exercise. I wish I was getting it in a physical way, um, practice because of that. And eventually with the right support and belief you, of people around you, you find yourself finding your voice a little bit more to the point now where I can openly speak in Patois in Jamaica and the guys will laugh and say, oh, she's getting upset her, she, her patois is coming out.

So they kind of understand, you know, the different sides of me. And I think that that's when you know, you've really gotten to the place, but it's not immediate. So don't knock yourself out if it's not happening, you know, all at once. It's, it, it takes years to kind of get yourself to the place that you want to be.

And so it's a consistent journey of committing to yourself, showing up practicing and knowing that over time it's getting better. And I also hear that it takes practice with other people. It takes practice with the, it doesn't just you don't show up to the boardroom and say, OK, I'm ready to go, you practice, you practice, you envision, you see how it's gonna play out and it all builds up over time. Yes. Thank you. What would you say, Jen?

So I would say that it has a lot to do with where you are and if you are feeling uncomfortable about bringing your whole self to work, then you need to ask yourself if you're working in the right place, if I'm being honest. So I know the company that I was at before PDO, I brought my whole self to work and I felt like it was a struggle. Um Like there was battles that just didn't seem to be necessary. Um Where here at PDO with one of our core values is respect life outside of work. And so you feel that permission to bring your whole self to work and to be who you are when you're in the office uh every day. And so, um I don't, I know I felt struggle being my authentic self at work and it was a matter of getting to the right to the right work environment so that I did feel comfortable bringing my whole self. So, so that would be my advice is to really look at where you are and ask yourself if you're in the right place. If you're feeling that struggle to be authentic,

that's great. And I think oftentimes we get so grateful to have a job that we don't necessarily take the time to say, oh, is this the right job? Is this the right place? It's more just the appreciation for having something. And when you start doing that kind of self awareness and an assessment, I think that absolutely, you can make it even better. Um Kind of one of the things that I think is the most powerful tool in us. Owning our impact and owning our authentic selves is being able to brag as, as women. We, that, that is something that I force and require often um and elicit uh in all sessions. So I, I wanted to give you guys the time um to celebrate some of your biggest brags. Um because I do think you guys have had incredible journeys and ones that when we hear them, you guys are opening new possibilities for us. So, what would you say are some of your biggest brags today?

Yeah. So I can take this one first if that's all right. Um, so, um, just after my oldest daughter was born at the time, she was my only daughter. Um, she, uh, I went back to work, um, and that lasted about 15 months until I was laid off of work. Um, and at the time I was working, we'll call it a flexible schedule. What it really was was a nutty schedule. Um, I would go in at 6 a.m. and I would work until noon. Um, and then I would pick my daughter up from just a half day of daycare and then I would work some more during her naps in the evenings. And so I really enjoyed this flexible schedule that I had. So when I got laid off, I thought, well, where, where else can I go and work and get this flexible schedule and have this, um, part time daycare for my daughter. So my husband and I, we, um, sat down and we decided that I would be a stay at home mom for a while. Um, as it turns out both of my kids are special needs. So a while turned into 12 years. Um, so I spent 12 years being a stay at home mom. Um, it took, you know, I spent my time taking them to therapy, coaching them at home.

Um, you know, sometimes they couldn't go to school and I'd need to be at home or sometimes I was at the school helping. Um, so, you know, there was really not a way, I mean, there was a way I could have gone back to work, but I really felt like being at home for my family was the most important thing. Um, but in the computer industry, 12 years is an eternity. Um So as it got towards the end of that 12 years, I taught myself everything that I needed to know about modern programming so I could get back into the workforce. Um I found a company to take a chance on me, but it would not be my forever home PDO is my forever home and I'm here now. Um, and my brag and all that story is to say, even after all that 12 years I have now, at this point in my career, I have matched my husband's title and salary. So I feel very excited that I have grown and come back to what I would like to think is where I would have been anyway, like in my head, like I made it back and I made up that time. Um And so I think that's my biggest brig.

Absolutely. And the truth is you took your priorities at home with your daughters and when you invest in your priorities, the dividend obviously is always returning. So you got back to the place where you were meant to be. I love it.

Thanks. I love that story too, Jennifer. Good because I know leaving tech and coming, if you leave it for five seconds and coming back in, it's not easy. So II I really um respect that, you know, I was just thinking, I had a couple of things, I was thinking, but I, I would say my biggest brag is so I'm big on community service. I 100% just love the, the whole concept of just giving back, paying it forward, especially coming from a third world country and just understanding, you know, people and, and kids needing to see the possibility and, and how important representation is. And I think for me, my biggest brag is that I, I always try to ma manage the time where I could give, you know, I could serve and do my job. And, and to be honest, I did it after the kids got older because we all know once you have kids at your time, there's a time constraint. So I don't act like I had like all the time in the world. But as my kids got older and the same thing for Jennifer, it, it's like you, you make the decision, there are things you're interested in, but maybe you could wait, just, you know what's, if you could wait a little bit down the road and as they got older I was able to use the time I use for them on other Children.

So I, I volunteer at the boys and girls club in Stanford and I go there every week for their teen club. Absolutely love the kids. I, you know, I went there just for one day. I like, I volunteer, you know, I saw a girl who was a part of the program, I wanted to be a part of it and I went there just to speak to them, you know, and tell them, tell them all the great things that could happen and reps, you know, be rep a representation of, of, of the corporate ladder and the fact that you can be a person of color and, and advance.

And I ended up going back every week, like, because it was so fulfilling. And at the end of last year, they honored me with a champion of the Youth Award. And I was so flabbergasted because I wasn't doing it thinking that this was even a thing. It's because I enjoy being with them and, and spending time with them. And I recognize that it's just important to, you know, as we, as we are living our lives, as leaders, you know, to expand that beyond just our company and let the rest of the world benefit from, you know, our gift of empathy and authenticity and, and be a, a AAA representative that kids can aspire to.

Um So for, for me, I think that honestly was my proudest moment. My family came. I, you know, I was able to go and get an award and, and the kids all wrote very nice speeches about even the, the most quiet kids. The, the the guy said everyone was fighting to give a speech and they all went up there and said things and they saw me in ways that I didn't even recognize. So I think that's my, my biggest brag, it's not work related, but I think work set me up to be able to do that. And that's why, uh to be honest, that's a lot of why I do what I do. I, I wanna stay in this space but still help, you know, on, on, on the side.

Well, and what I also see in both of your stories is when you do what you love doors open and things align and, and people will recognize you and people will champion you. And so it's, it's really doing what feels right in the moment and for you, it can, it can be charity, it can be doing your job and it's OK. As long as you are inspired and feeling good about what you do things, the momentum builds um over time without a doubt. Um So I'm curious, um, what's the one piece of advice you wish that someone would have shared with you earlier in your

career? I would say for me, Jennifer, I, I'll jump in because I would say for me, I would say, uh to use your voice, like I don't think I appreciated the impact that that could have. And there's always, like I said, you're, you're hesitant, how will that be perceived, you know, use your voice for whatever it is. It, it could be to advocate for something to complain about an ouch to ask for help. A lot of times, you know, we think that's a sign of weakness, but it definitely is not like use your voice, you know, for that promotion that you're looking for, for the community that you want, be able to just be, you know, upfront and, and, and, and use your voice and, and, and, and it's funny because IU I told my, I give my daughters the best of advice and then they'll throw it back and say, are you doing the same?

But I haven't, my, my eldest is working and she a lot of times would get stuff like there's a deadline and the people would give her the documents and stuff she needed to work on like a, like right up on crunch time and I told her, you know, use your voice, push back and she was, she was, she was mortified.

But then she, you know, I helped her, she wrote an email. I looked at it. I said that's perfect. Don't think about it, send it and it changed her whole, you know, no people are checking in with her, they're asking her, you know, so don't think that and, and you know, she's just been working for a year. Don't think that you're too, you're too junior or you can't, you know, you're, you're worth whatever it is that you need, you're worth it, ask for it, demand it, complain about it. So I would say use your voice. Absolutely

incredible lesson.

I think that's great. I'm gonna go use my voice right after. That's a great advice. Um, but I think for me, um, it's read Brene Brown. Um, and that's kind of funny because Brene Brown wasn't actually researching and writing books early in my career, but now that she is, I really suggest that, um, you know, we've talked a lot about relationships here today and, um, I think that one of the things that I learned from her is how important relationships are and how vulnerability really sets you up to build strong relationships whether that, whether that be at work or not, but specifically dare to lead talks a lot about being vulnerable as a leader.

Um and how that can build strength in your teams. Um And I have really seen that play out books, books are one of the tools that I use to learn new skills. And so, um I find, yeah, exactly. And so I find Brene Brown specifically to just really help trans transform me from somebody who really thought results was all that mattered. right. Put your head down, do your best work. Everything will come out fine. Right? And, and really understand, well, wait a minute, there's this human element that is so important to the success of an organization. And I think, um, Bene does a really fabulous job of laying that out. Um, so that would be my advice.

Awesome. I'm curious, how do you show up vulnerable at work?

Um, really telling some of the stories that I've told today I think is one way. Um I, but in addition, I mean, I'm willing to admit mistakes is probably the other big way. Like I will say this was me and I'll even say here's why I believe it's me. So not just like trying to throw myself under the bus or, or be a martyr, but instead it's like here's a mistake that I made, you know, here's why I know I could have done better and what I know I could have done better. Um, to really, um, to really, yeah, to really have had a better outcome. And so I think admitting mistakes is definitely one of them, but just being, being authentic and being a human, right, when I have things going on at home, I'm willing to open up and share those as well. Look, today is not my best day and here's why my kid put diesel fuel in her car. So it's been a rough day so far, you know, or whatever. Um, so, so that's how I show up and how I'm vulnerable at work.

Yeah, I, I'm

with you Jennifer. I, I do come in with my heart on my sleeve, like to the point where you can tell, like what's going on just by looking at me. Um, and II, I think it makes people trust you so much more because they just know that you're going to be honest with them. You, you're ok with admitting you, you made a mistake, you're ok with asking for help or even with my, even my own leadership team. Like I lean on each of them for their area expertise and it's fine if I know that they know something that, you know, more than I do. It's not a threat. I, I lift them up, I show them, you know, show them off to whoever is around because I need them to understand that they're, you know, they're, they're there to help support me and I don't know everything and I think that makes, that makes for a trusted leader because that's not the expectation isn't to know everything.

The expectation is to be able to ask questions and just show up as yourself. And, you know, I'm very, a very super um empathetic person and, and I, I'll tear up in two seconds. I mean, v will tell you that and, but, you know, as, as she told me once, that's my superpower, it's my ability to feel and hear and see people. Um So I'm completely ok with, I mean, I don't want to do the break on to the ugly cry every five minutes. But I'm comfortable if you're telling me something and it, you know, because it shows that there's a human in here and I'm actually feeling it. So I, you know, I don't feel like I need to be stoic in every moment. I try. But um it's ok if sometimes you let the tears flow or, you know, you let the emotion show.

Yeah. And through that, I'm assuming both of you guys have built more fellowship, right? Kind of you, your people will kind of follow you to the moon and back. Um because of your authenticity because of your vulnerability, they feel seen, they feel heard and they're willing to take risks because it's a safe space to, to take risks.

Yep. Absolutely.

Um We have a few minutes left. Um And I know we've been getting some chat messages celebrating you guys along the way and celebrating what you're saying. Um And we certainly open, oh, look at all these inspiring stories I told you lots of women being transformed today. Um So my last question is, what is the one wish you have for every woman here? Um

Yeah, so for me, it's to go shatter those glass ceilings. Um And whether that is on a management track and you're looking for that, that VP that head of that seat at the table or whether you're on an IC track and you're working towards that principal engineer, um just break those glass ceilings, you might be the only one in the room, but that is ok.

You still deserve to be there. Absolutely.

And for me, I would say, just know your intrinsic worth, you know, never second guess it never let people put labels on you that you feel like you have to adhere to. Um always, you know, always just believe in yourself and just keep, you know, keep looking forward and thinking about what you want your next, um what you want your next position to be. And I, and I do think again, you know, you use your voice and you make sure that in, in everything that you do, you for me, I know what's most important is that my leadership legacy is one of, you know, courage, one of respect, one that people can say, demonstrated gratitude.

Um and, and just think about the way that, you know, you you, you, you progress your journey and you wanna be able to look back at it and, and be proud.

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. I uh this has been an incredible opportunity for all these women and all these comments, you've inspired them without a doubt. And I think one of the things that we talked about as we prepared for this panel is it takes sisterhood, it takes sisterhood to share stories. It takes sisterhood to kind of rise together. That old notion of one of us can do and one of us can't, isn't how it's done. And I think you guys have embodied it incredibly well, not only today but in your organization. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And if there are any comments of questions before we um close out, look at all this inspiration. We, we keep on getting more inspiration in the chat. You guys have lit the world on fire. We are capable of all all of us here. So, um I, I think that they will be wrapping us up, but it oh, thank you so much. I'm about to have a call with the product director on my team leader because the micromanaging has been killing me for the last month. You prepared me to be ready to have a voice. Absolutely. You got, you've got this Paula without a doubt. So if there are no other questions, I think this panel shall be closing shortly it was going until 950 right? 40 minutes. Yeah. Ok.

Well, how else do we fill, fill time ladies?

We can keep chatting.

I mean, we can certainly do it heading to performance review and feel very ready. Thank you. I guess I'd love to hear what you guys are inspired to do from this call. What's your one takeaway from this panel on how you guys are moving forward? Because I think part of it is showing some kind of what you do with the inspiration, helps kindly wrap up. We're past the time. Ok.

I guess everyone can just leave the zoom. Absolutely.