Um But thank

you so much for joining and

thank you for having me here at the, the Women In Tech Global Conference. Uh Welcome to my talk. So um a little introduction about me, I, what gave me the audacity to go into tech is becoming a single mom going through a divorce. Um When my daughter was only two weeks old, it rejected me into a, I can do anything Boss Babe mode and that phase of my life was well needed and it benefited me greatly. Um I outperformed my peers and I managed to quadruple my salary in a shoe for each a few short years. But as soon as my life became manageable, I realized I could no longer perform the same. Uh Boss Babe Trajectory, I became despondent and depressed. Um And during the pandemic, I started yoga during my lunch break. It was the only thing that I look forward to in my day and I felt um absolute bliss and I started to ask myself what if I could do this every day as a job?

So at the end of last year, I burnt out and I just decided to

leave the tech space,

I realized that I

work for companies where my values were not really in line. Um And they were just most definitely out of sync with mine. And worse than that, I didn't even know what my values were anymore because I had been chasing money and security for so long without coming up for air. Um I pivoted into yoga and I mean, I still get to be in the tech space as I maintain my own websites and my own content, but it's all at my own pace. So now the purpose of this talk is to not get you to leave tech. Um On the contrary, the aim is to bring mindfulness into the tech space to avoid burnouts, to have your team, your coworkers, your company feel supported and the mental health prioritized. Um People are at the end of the day resources. And if I mean, if you are treating, you know, the earth's resources, the same way you treat humans, you know, you'll realize that resources can be spent, they can be spread too thin and you know, you'll just end up with people that are leaving a high, you know, rate of leaving and burnout and resentment basically.

So what are the scientific benefits

of mindfulness? Now, I wanna highlight the

most groundbreaking research that has been recently done. There is tons, there's a plethora out there, but I've just cherry picked a few that I thought were great to highlight. So number one neuroplasticity, we all know now that our brains are plastic that can change and adapt to both structure and function in response to what we experience. Um It's been found that the practice of meditation is associated with neuroplasticity. So it actually it's been found that it helps reduce age related brain degeneration and improves cognitive function which is mind-blowing um re stress and depression. So researchers have found that going through mindfulness meditation programs effectively reduces the negative components of psychological stress with effects comparable to what could be expected from the use of an antidepressant. Now, I'm a believer in antidepressants. I take antidepressants but this the fact that meditation can actually have the same or similar effects comparative of a like chemically engineered solution I think is quite fascinating.

Um I just wanna check the chat just to see if anyone is asking questions. I will

take uh some Q and A if there is time at the end of the session. Um let me just carry on here. So back to

the

benefits of mindfulness in the workplace or mindfulness in general um

immune system.

So, meditators who went through an eight week mindfulness training program had significantly more flu antibodies than their non meditating peers after they received a flu vaccine. This was according to a randomized control study published in the Psychosomatic medicine which is wow.

Um And then second to last, the more focus and less overthinking. So now how to explain this is that there's something called the the brain's default mode network, which is the DMN, it's associated with mind wandering, um self referential processing, which is basically rumination, ruminating that kind of thing, overthinking anxiety. Um This default mode, default mode network, DMN becomes highly active when we're not focused on a single task. Um So a study published in the National Academy of Science has found that the DMN of advanced meditators was not as active. So that suggests that seasoned practitioners may experience less mind wandering and we're able to shift out our ruminative thoughts with more ease and carry on our task with less destruction. Um which I can kind of really believe because I've recently been diagnosed with a DH D.

And so I don't know all about that kind of thing. Um And I can uh attest to that anyway, creativity, mindfulness and creativity are significantly related according to researchers who reanalyzed 33 published articles. Um They concluded that mindfulness based interventions focusing on open monitoring may actually boost creative abilities.

So now knowing all of this, I mean, why is it not

advertised in the news? Why is it not, you know, part of every

company as a standard practice? I mean, we all have

this amazing solution. And I think what I've come the conclusion that I've come to is that it's not sellable. Mindfulness is not something that's seen as productive. It's not something you can see with your eyes. Um, it's quiet and you don't necessarily need to pay someone to do it, do it, do it. Um, it doesn't get anyone's ratings up. It's not dramatic. Um, but it is however ancient, ancient knowledge.

So

these are the, some of the benefits. I'm sharing a picture of this talk. There are plenty others and um, I am posting all of the resources linked to all these articles and studies on my linkedin. If you want to check um for yourself, just fact check me. Um I have this little schedule here of how to bring mindfulness into the workplace. I'm going to check

if we have any Q and A quickly here. Loud and clear. Awesome,

cool. Um Thank you for joining everyone. Um I am going to move back on to how can we bring mindfulness into the workspace. I have compiled a short little list of how we can bring it in to workplace. So this is if you're a manager, if you're a team lead, even if, even if you're not, you can still impact your workspace. So I think number one, I'd like to chat about boundaries, especially in the pandemic. People learned the hard way about boundaries and I mean, working hours for one, especially when you have companies um that do flexi time, it is very difficult because yes, you know, nobody wants to be the stringent work eight hours and that's it, you know, kind of um harsh uh black and white thinking and when you get flexi

hours, there's like, there's not

really in, in a lot of companies, you know, there's no one really counting your hours. It depends on what your role is and where you're working. But generally speaking in the tech world, they don't do that. And in my experience, um the problem with that though is if they demand more of you, you kind of can't say no because you're already in this flexi time um situation where you feel like undeserving and that you, you owe them something. So I think working hours establishing what the boundaries are, there is really important and giving not only what your company's boundaries are, but your boundaries and what hours you are willing to work towards um work till and from. Um So you need to be strict with that strict with yourself and strict with letting other people know. Um Also about lunchtime and breaks. We need self-regulation. We need breaks in the day to, to ground and just to get back into our own space. Be strict with yourself with that too. Even if you're in the middle of a panic, we need to take time to just pause and then come back into it. We are, we can come back more refreshed, we can, you know, come back, we can problem solve better. If you are just go, go, go, go, go, then it's just, it's not gonna help anyone basically. It might look good, but it's not gonna help anyone.

And the, the most important part of the boundary thing for me is the emails after hours or on weekends or holidays or when you're on leave. Um, in Portugal, they have made it illegal for managers to contact or email their employees outside of working hours. And I can understand why because just because someone says, oh, don't worry

about this email,

just check it on Monday. I'm just sending it to you because I'm working after hours. I

just, that is so selfish because

yes, you know, you're telling the person not to look at the email, but they are going to or it will be at the back of their mind and they'll be wondering, hm, what's that about? And the problem is by the time you get back to work on the Monday, you have bucket loads of work there because somebody else decided they wanted to work after hours. And so they're creating more work for you to catch up on more emails to catch up on, which is in my mind. Rubbish. Um,

so yes, that's my

stance on boundaries and I do think like Portugal, other countries should also make it illegal for

managers um, to contact employers outside

working hours. This is obviously, um, you know, barring any situation where it's an emergency or where you are on call, you know, um, coming goes without saying anyway, number two aim to be a single tasker. So in the tech space, we have many forms of communication these days like slack and we have so many Slack groups and Skype and emails and phone, uh your whatsapp, your social media. And if you're like me, um oh I forgot, get a hub, get a hub request, pinging constantly for someone who has a DH D like me, it's like a kid in a casino with all these lights going off. And I remember some of my days used to just be me hopping from one communication platform to the next the entire day.

And I didn't have any

plan for what I actually needed to do. And I mean, science has proven that there's actually no such thing as multitasking. We can only do one thing at a time at any given time with your full attention. We can only do one thing when you're fully present. Um And so a way to practice

during this is to

set out block times of your day. So say nine o'clock, 10 o'clock is for checking emails and 12 o'clock is for checking all your slack or pull requests or what have you. And obviously, we have to have fluidity around this and it's just really a framework to fall back on after the panic settles or after some, you know, major crisis which is always happening. Um But I think being

strict on that and kind of communicating it to others and not being afraid to assert that boundary and say, thank you. I'll look at this letter, 10 o'clock is the time that I check my emails. That's

it. And you will, you will not have this worry that while you're busy with something, there's that nagging, you know, voice at the back of your head. That's like, oh, have you checked your emails? You can just say, oh, I'm gonna check it at 10. That's the time I check my emails. So when you start blocking your time out like

this, you feel like you kind of have a structure and a

framework and it's just, it's a little bit more, it's less anxiety redundant in my uh in my experience anyway. Um and number three,

introducing

mindfulness practice at work. If you're a manager or a team lead, this can look like hiring an actual practitioner to come into your offices or if you're a remote company, hiring an online practitioner to do online sessions for your teams or many of you, which is most of the population lacks the resources.

Or let's just be honest, the buy in from corporate, this could look like getting your team to do 10 minutes of yoga on one of the millions of yoga youtubes out there that can be done for free end of the day. It's not about quantity, it's about quality and breaking up the day and pausing and grounding ourselves and stopping to do that, how you do it it does not have to be an hour, you know, a day. It does not have to be this huge event where you're taking, you know, a lot of company, a lot of people away from their desks, it does not have to be that. Um

And if

restriction of movement is a concern, you know, not everybody's bendy, not everybody, you know, it's a, it can also be quite a self-conscious thing. There are many types of yoga out there and movement that does not involve uh pretzel like movements and some of which you can do at your chair, at the comfort of your chair. No match required. Um There is a plethora of mindfulness and yoga workshops and horses online that could be shared amongst your team can be done as a team. Um There are linkedin courses uh

in person. Corporate practitioners have preferred, there are so much,

there's so much out there. Um

And my last piece

is mindfulness practices that you can do at home. So now, I mean, obviously this whole talk is about women in tech. But if you are taking home some mindfulness practices and you are personally doing your own, you know, practices in your own time, which is actually fun little exercise that I'm gonna go through. You will show up happier on Monday morning. So it will benefit um women in tech in the long run. So, number one, I've noted breathing exercises. I'm not sure if anyone has done prana techniques. This is ancient old Yogi stuff. There's stuff like an alternate nostril breathing, belly breathing. You can find all of this online.

It is super easy, super quick and you can do something like this before a scary meeting or during a really stressful situation. You just take a break. You can do some really deep mindful breathing exercises for two minutes and it can make the world of a difference. Um Meditation, which is obvious, I'm sure everybody knows what meditation is. But you get different types of meditation. You can sit still and just put your, your timer on your phone for five minutes and just sit there or if you're like me. Um And you have all these thoughts coming in, you can do something that's more like a guided meditation. Um Inside Timer is an app, it's free, it is amazing. They have wonderful um meditations, they have like 20 minutes, 10 minutes, two minutes, three minutes, whatever your, you know, whatever type of meditation you wanna do morning, evening, um meditation for self love. There is just so much there and it is all free. I really highly recommend inside timer. Um Journaling, journaling is such a great way of getting everything that's here out on paper. And if you do not know what a journal is about, sometimes, you know, you get your journal out your pen and you're like, OK, I don't know what to do. Um There are loads of journaling prompts that you can find online.

So a prompt will be something like, um what did I dream last night or what do, what is my, you know, best thing to do

and you can just start with a prompt and

then you will just find that you will end up writing a 500 word essay. Um The other way is journal is to do a nonstop journaling timer. So you set your clock or timer for 10 minutes and you do not lift that pen up only to, you know, go on to the next word. So you will um basically, you will write. Even if you don't know what to say, you write, I do not know what you say, even if you do that for 10 minutes, it is still a very therapeutic process of you focusing on something and what is in your mind and putting it on paper. And if you are artistic at all. Um And or musical, I would suggest doodling. There is something called musical doodling where you take a big paper, you can do watercolors, you can go crazy. Um Or you can just go very simple pen and paper, play your favorite song or any kind of music that you like. It can be crazy. It could be meditative and what you do is basically draw what you hear and you are, it sounds strange but it's drawing whatever music comes in through your ears into your body out through your pen and how you perceive the music to be.

And it is something that's pretty fun to do. Um The other doodling task would be um drawing your breath, which is something a um a woman that I did a mindfulness workshop with, she taught me and it's basically sitting there breathing normally like you always do and just really listening to your breath and then drawing it and kind of like waves or however you perceive your breath look um which is also pretty cool.

Anything that brings you into your body. Um There's also many sense, sense perception exercises. Any action that involves your senses can become a mindfulness practice. So, I mean, the five senses, if you are eating, you can eating an apple, you can smell it, you can look at it, you can inspect it, you can contemplate what farm it came from. You can, you know, really like feel the taste and the the texture. It's can be an immersive, mindful experience and it's something you can do at your desk. Um mindful walking, you can, you know, notice the leaves crackling beneath your feet and you know, contemplate like, what do I feel? What do I smell? What do I hear? Um How many birds can I smell when you are really in any kind of um action? You can just really involve all your senses and be completely mindful. That is a mindful practice. Um So I really rushed through all of that. I wanted to

see if anybody had some questions. I just want to go through

the Q and A. I don't see any questions

here, which is cool. Uh Right. Ok.

Hello. Hello.

Hi. Uh Karina and Melanie.

Um, cool. So for the next uh

uh section, I am going to teach you some chair yoga and it's a bit strange for me. I normally teach people

when I can see them and I can't see any of you. So I'm just gonna pretend like you are all following along and hoping that you are. So now this is something that can be done on any desk, any chair. And basically, we're gonna begin with your

back flat against the back of your chair, feet flat on the ground

and really just take a few breaths and really just breathe. Normally don't try, uh, breath any deeper or shallower than you normally do just completely normal breathing

and just bringing yourself into this moment. We're going to do a little bit of

chair yoga. This is nice when you are in a meeting, you can just turn your camera off and, and practice this at

home or if you're working from home, I'm not sure if you could get away with this doing in the

office. Um, but for those who are remote working, it's great. Um,

you know, I find

that a lot of us don't sit, I don't sit really perfectly at my, at my computer during the day and I get technic and, you know, wrist issues with typing. So this really does help. Um And it's, it's also just a nice way to break up the day. So

we are going to begin breathing big inhale in through the eyes and a big sigh out through the mouth and we're gonna do this a few times. You can close your eyes here if you'd like. Um or you could just look at

me. It's funny because I can't see you.

So really just grinding, feeling the seat

beneath you, feeling the floor beneath the seat, feeling the earth support the seat that

you are on and just noticing how you feel um and getting comfortable as possible, making any

adjustments you need to do, whether that's putting on an extra top or taking off

an item of clothing, if you're getting hot, whatever can get you into that extra bit of comfort is key and sitting in that

silence for just a little moment

longer noticing how uncomfortable it can be. To be still to be sitting, noticing your thoughts come and go,

which they will

try to see your thoughts as

a bunch of leaves that fall in a stream,

a stream of

thinking and just every

time you notice a thought, just notice it go by.

We don't pick it up, we don't

grab a hold of it. We don't inspect it

or judge it. We just let it be and let it flow down

the stream. OK? You can blink your eyes to open and

follow me.

We're going to reach both hands up nice and high. I don't have a full camera on. So I'm going to have to queue you. We're going to

take a hold of our right left wrist with our right hand

and pull it over and feeling a nice side stretch in the side of our, our chest. I'm just breathing in here, nice and deep. Everything we do here, we are not

pushing to an edge. We are, we are moving with comfort and with our breath.

Um, it's not a competition. It's

not about being tough. It's really just about anything that feels amazingly

good. We're gonna go on the other side and just a little bit of pressure pulling the he the arm over the head, both feet flat on the ground and just feeling your breath and back to center. We're going to take a hold of the right, the left side with our right hand and gently nudge the head over, getting a nice neck stretch over here and really just dropping that left arm down beside you and just feel your edge and pull a little bit more than your edge and just hang out there for a moment and release.

We're gonna go to the other side, gently grabbing the side of the head, relaxing the left arm right arm down. Sorry, my left and rights are terrible today and back to center, we're going to go both arms up and cactus, the arms. So we're gonna do a nice little back bend here.

I'm just gonna trim so that you can see me. So

we're going to bend the back. So puffing the chest up and then lifting up the chin and just feeling a nice little feeling your

shoulder blades and

really squeezing together nicely and opening of the chest and then from there releasing forward,

bring the fingers forward, insulate

the hands and then pull it forward. If that's not really comfortable for you, you can just grab your hands like this and it's really rounding the back, tucking the chin and that should feel really good between your, your

scapula over here

and really just breathing, letting your breath leave the moments and back. We're gonna take both arms back to like like a bird and we open, opening up the chairs, lifting up the chin and rounding back on repeats and back up wing

Leons back,

opening up the chest, lifting up the chin and back to neutral spine. I'm going to let me turn in front here. We're gonna take any hand and place it like this and give it a nice stretch over here. You feel good forearm stretch here. We kind of strain a lot the typing. So this is really nice stretch without keeping both feet flat on the ground. I'm not putting too hard I'm just breathing in and out and we're gonna swap over to the other side, grabbing a hold of the fingers. This is something great to do in the middle of a meeting on Zoom to say you're having camera problems and release hands to the side. We're going to place our hands on our shoulders and just do some shoulder rolls here to the front and rolls to the back.

Should hear some

cricks and cracks in your shoulders here. Ok? We're gonna take our right arm

and hook it underneath our left

and class by

hands. If you cannot do this, it's called eagle. If you cannot do this

and it's not um uh

accessible for you,

you can cross your arms really tightly. It's almost

like you're giving yourself a lovely hug and just

feel the back tide really stretching open. And if you are in this position, try getting your elbows in line with your shoulders and really just round the back, rounding the upper back and just keep breathing and release open, nice open chest and we can do it on the other side. So it's like in the left arm under the right, swinging the arms together trying to keep the clasp of the hands at the top, lifting up the elbows in one with the shoulders. And if that's not accessible, taking a

hold off your shoulders and giving yourself a love you have

and release that back out, we're gonna take that this hand on the

outside of your knee, of your right knee. So it's gonna be difficult without you seeing me. But as you do that, you're gonna take this arm

up and over a nice straight angle. So it's a seated extended side angle and just feeling a stretch along this side. Here from here, we could open up the chest looking up to the ceiling and back down, repeating on the other

side, we're gonna take the right hand outside of the left knee,

stretching up, up an overextended side angle and then over, opening up the chest and back to center

and just shake it all out,

going to go into a quick little

guided meditation. Um I would love to play some music but I am worried that it's gonna come out funny that's happened before where the music doesn't, it comes at all scratchy. So you're going to just have to pretend that there's some beautiful music in the background. Um

Taking your hands to heart center and just getting your thumbs on, resting them and your sternum and closing the eyes. Remember that you all can see me but I cannot see you.

So do not worry about how you

look. I don't and just feel your heart beating against your fingers and feeling your chest

rise and fall

and then in your breath just be natural. I'm really hoping that you got something out of this talk and I just want to thank you for showing up and showing up for yourself and spending this time with me the short time that we have, keep breathing gently, feeling your feet on the ground, feeling your clothes

on your body.

Every fiber feeding the room, the sights, the sounds, the distractions and paying gratitude to yourself. Now, in yoga, we usually bow our heads in Haim Mura and place the finger to the third eye. This is really just a tradition. You can take it or leave it and we finish off with not day. So that is an example of a nice quick

little flow that you can do in the comfort of your own

chair. I want to leave some time um for Katarina A DH D and very short, I am very short. I can never sit normally on chairs,

cross legged only. Oh, that's funny. Um I'm

also very short. I'm 157. I don't know how uh how short

you are.

I wanted to just check if anyone's still

online. We

still 15

40 my

goodness. OK. You're a lot shorter than me.

That is funny.

Um I want to take any questions that you might have around mindfulness in the workplace,

what you could do to be mindful and what your biggest um problems that you find

with uh having mindfulness

in the workplace. Um You are welcome, Amy and Lakota.

Very welcome. Um If you wanna find some free

content online, I would recommend this is nothing with me. It's not affiliated with me. It's someone I, I think it's um yoga with Adrian. She is amazing. Um, but there are so many great people out there that do free yoga and free mindfulness exercises and meditation on youtube.

I would highly recommend following some people and just starting with 5, 10 minutes a day. It's really all you need. It is not about, uh how

many times a day you do it. It's not about, you know, doing it for an hour. It's really just

consistency and doing a little bit every day. And I spoke up earlier about uh neuroplasticity and it is amazing that you can change your brain and you really have the power to do that and a little bit each day is really gonna go a long way for you. Um

I, no more questions. Let's see, Q and A, let's see. I have just activated the Q and A here guys, you mentioned the effects of yoga working like antidepressants. Do you have any

resources comparing a DH D

medication to that? Um

Actually I have zero. I have done zero research on that myself. Um I've recently been diagnosed with a DH D so I have been hyper fixated on that, but

not in relation. I

have done some research actually on mindfulness. And if you do a quick Google now, I'm telling you now something will come up because people with a DH D really do. Um They do excel more and it really helps with their, I think with rumination and what I spoke about earlier with the default mode, network of your brain, it goes to this default network mode and you don't even have to have a DH D to kind of understand that a lot of people just with anxiety have that.

Um Jackie says, yes, mindfulness and the neurodivergent

mind, it is incredible The amount of information that you can find.

Um people

that are neurodivergent need mindfulness more than anyone.

Um And if you're neurodivergent,

you know why it's because you are so susceptible, we, we seek novelty,

we are seeking constantly and we are,

we want to have fun and we want that, that dopamine rush and, you know, when you are sitting in front of something that's

quite boring or a menial task, something that you see is boring. Um You know, a ping on

Slack or Skype or you know,

your phone buzzing social media, you know, little notifications coming up, you will completely go from one thing to the next and drop what you were doing. Um So how mindfulness can help with that is um it, that was the article that I I mentioned earlier with the DMN default network is that it helps um alleviate that and that you kind of it strengthens your default mode, that

default network

mode. And so that you don't jump from one thing to another as easily and that you might be distracted, but then you'll come back to it. Um

Yes, you can uh completely, you can, you can contact the uh Karina. Let me, let me see if I can message DMU.

Um

I will send you a message here. Let me just add you on connect at Gisa dot online.

That's my email.

Um

Cool. I'm just send it to you now. Um

You can also find me on linkedin. I am on Instagram.

Um I am on Facebook but I'm not really act on Facebook. I don't think anyone is really um under 40. Um Yes, thank you. Um

Let me just check. It's busy. Oh, all the questions are loading now. Um We have five minutes

left if anybody wants to add anything. Um

I, yeah,

I am very humbled. Thank you for, for

coming and thank you for the thank yous. Um

um Yeah, I

really, the my, the purpose

of this talk is really just to get the, to help the world

um take on mindfulness as and make it a priority because I don't

feel like we do um in this like capitalistic society that we're in. Um It's all about being productive and doing and more and more and making more and being more and boss Babe, and I think that's what I meant by Boss Babe ideology. I think being ambitious and going through your goals and shooting, you know, for the stars is amazing. And should be done by all means. But I don't think we need to be doing um reaching for things or going for gold under the guise of once I get, you know, this amount of money, then I'll be happy or, you know, I need to make this many figures or I need to get that promotion and kind of having that um Carrot forever dangling in front of you because when we're not mindful, I mean, it took me three years and a burnout and, you know, the pandemic to realize that, um, I was in this kind of right race and I don't even know what my own.

Um, I didn't even know what I wanted to do anymore. So I kind of went through this like life crisis and I think, yeah, after being burned out and the overwhelm and everything, it just, I kind of, I

didn't find myself, I'm still trying to figure it out and I'm still

just winging it. Um, I have my own, like online company now but, and I still come across these issues, which is funny

and it, it kind of, it, it shows me that it

doesn't matter if I'm working for myself or if I'm working for someone else that I will still struggle with, with this kind of thing because it's in me and it's only something I can control. Um, Ariel

says, is there anything helping you figure it out?

Um, what is helping me figure it out, the, the overwhelming, the burnouts, I think, um,

I don't want to put it all on mindfulness, uh, practices, but I think it's a lot of

self-care and having the audacity to care about myself. A lot of women out there in general, we do not look after ourselves and it seemed, it's almost like an, an, an, an honor, um, award of like, oh, I don't look after myself. I look after everybody else except myself and it's almost like we are rewarded for that. And, you know, it's looked upon well,

but I mean, I've been to therapists,

I've been to an A DH D evaluation clinic. I've been doing

all sorts of self-help things the past few years and it seems, you know, over the top

and crazy. But it's, I mean, the last I've been working for 17 years in corporate and I did not, you know, look after myself. So now it's like this big, uh, I don't know what you wanna call it. Um, I can't think of the word. There's a big pile to work through and I am figuring it out, but it's a process and it's scary because I'm

35 this year

and I'm, I still feel like I'm just winging everything. I still feel like an impostor, but I guess the mindfulness practice has made a huge difference for me and I would highly recommend it. So I don't think you can ever have anything figured out um completely to answer

your question. I answered it the very

long way.

Um, we have two minutes. If anybody has any questions, um that you wanna ask any comments, I really appreciate it. Um Let's see. Um Hi, everyone morning. I think I'm on the wrong pole. Thank you so much, everyone. Um I think that is it. We are wrapping up for the day. I think it will be closed in one minute. Um I'm not seeing the session feedback. Sorry, the chats, there we go. Ok. It's still showing up here. Really not help to see another perspective. You are very welcome, Melanie. It is very, it's been very tough for me to not actually see anyone's faces because it just feels like I'm speaking to myself.

But um saying that thank you very much for the messages. I really appreciate it and I had a great time um talking and practicing and sharing what I could share and um anyone who's interested

in finding out more or if they have any questions,

check me out on linkedin, Lisa Bailey or you can check me out online. It's on, it's a yoga VSA dot online.

Anyway, cheers. Thank you so much. Bye.