Mariah Lichtenstern Entrepreneurship - Advocating for Tech Funding Equity
Video Transcription
All right. So, welcome to the session, uh entrepreneurship advocating for tech funding equity.I'm honored to be with you today and incredibly excited to see so many women in this conference um coming together women in tech and I truly believe that women are essential to economic recovery and that we can use the disruption and activism of our current climate as a catalyst for greater change.
So um I'm excited to be part, you're part of it and I look forward to um connecting with more of you through this conference. I, I was incredibly inspired just listening in yesterday and I'm sure you all are too. So um I, I'm excited for us to continue building upon this. So I'll just share a little bit about my background with you. I'm a serial entrepreneur. I started my first business while I was an undergrad at UC Berkeley. Uh I went to grad school for motion picture producing and earned multiple F licenses prior to the 2008 downturn um during the recovery that operated a media and technology consultancy. But today, I'm probably best known as a connector with an incredible network of tech industry founders funders and talent. Um I like to think that I add value through that leadership and, and I'm very um privileged to be able to contribute through conferences like this. Um I also make curated connections and, you know, I'm very active in ecosystem ecosystem building. I've launched a Founder Institute chapter here in Sacramento, California. And, and if you aren't familiar with the, the founder institute, it's a 14 week accelerator headquartered in Silicon Valley with chapters in over 200 cities around the world.
I myself, I'm a graduate female founder fellow and I believe on the Board of Women Tech is uh Rachel Shepherd who runs our female founder initiative. So it's actually one of the top performing um accelerators in terms of in including women. So I'm very thankful to be part of that. I am a uh an advisor. I serve as a key advisor for the California Clean Energy Funds uh CAL seed initiative, which is a, a clean tech fund, $24 million clean tech uh for Berkeley Sky Deck Village Capital Finance Forward, fourth wave female founder accelerator which has applications open for any of you who are interested in applying and um the Yale University School of Medicine's Digital Innovation and Diversity Initiative.
I'm also a member of UCL A Ventures and Aspen Tech Policy C follow where I'm working to close that tech industry funding gap which we're talking about today. So as an operator advisor and student of diverse perspectives. Um What I really strive to do is to help develop resilient founders and to bridge the gap between those with privilege and those with valuable but underutilized perspectives and women are certainly a huge part of that. So what, what I hope to do today is cover some, some things that many of us already know around the statistics of women in uh entrepreneurship and who are receiving virture capital. Um and then talk about some things that may be, you know, a little bit less known and I hope this uh session should be a little bit longer than I had initially thought. Um I think we, we have up to 40 minutes here. So if more people jump in and have questions, um I hope that we'll have uh some time to jump into those because I would love to hear from others. So, but now women led businesses are basically 20% of BC backed companies. But interestingly, in 2019, the percent of BC, the actual capital invested in female led teens, um It falls far below that. Um So 11% 11.5% of BC funding went to all female and mixed G teens and only 2.2% of VC funding went to all female teams.
And if we look at allocation to ethnically underrepresented founders, it's even a smaller allocation, 1% went to black founders 1.8% to Latinx founders. And when you look at um the allocation to women at the intersectionality of those. It's um it's stas statistically insignificant.
Uh So, you know, the, the problem with this is that we performance indicators that the likelihood of top quart uh of companies that are in the top quartile of diversity, outperforming the bottom quartile um is is significant uh 15% for gender diverse uh companies, 35% for ethnically diverse companies.
And a recent study that came out from the Kaufman Fellow society shows that uh when it comes to diverse founding and executive teams, they generate alpha returns on positive exits. So we can't say that, you know, investment in women and people of color is not happening because they um aren't making returns. It's, it's not driven. Um It's, it's actually tied to bias. And the Center for Global Policy Solutions has found that discriminatory financing practices are costing the US 9 million jobs and over $300 billion in collective national income. So, um and now when we look at the venture capital side, we find that women are 11% of ec decision makers.
And that's part of the problem because, you know, venture capital itself is lacking diversity. Um When you look at underrepresented minorities, um they're, you know, even smaller, less percent black male, uh less than 1% black female, less than 1% Latino male. And again, statistically insignificant number of Latina venture capital investors. Um And then there's another you know, kind of disturbing fact here, if you looked at the prior numbers in, in here, even though women are 11% of BC decision makers, um the percentage of women that are receiving in is so much lower. Why is that? Um And so there's some studies that suggest that that women who are in decision making positions uh at venture capital firms are actually feeling pressure not to invest in women or to conform more to the environment that they're in. Um And one of one of the terms for this um phenomena is that the Queen queen B syndrome. If there's one of us at the table, it's gonna be me and I'm not gonna jeopardize place at the table um by advocating for women, other women. Um And studies have also found that when women advocate for other women or when people of color, advocate, advocate for other people of color, that they're penalized for that. Whereas when our allies advocate um they're actually rewarded so troubling things.
Um But what we find here because I, I'd like to think of things from a solution mindset. Right now, the media focuses on investors where vice is clear and, and specifically on uh venture capital. And that's understandable, for instance, that the Harvard review cites a study from 2014 that use identical slides and scripts voiced by men and women with or without photos of the presenter and then ask city participants to rate the investment I'm reading straight from a city that's linked here.
Uh Pitches voiced by men significantly outperform those with the woman, woman narrator and pitches where the narrator's picture with a good looking man performed best of all the outcomes were the same, whether the participants, the judges were male or female. So this goes back to what we've mentioned before. The research concluded that investors prefer pitches presented by male investors compared with pitches made by female entrepreneurs, even when the content of the pitch is the same. So yes, there is clear bias here and this is why there is so much media um attention and advocacy around um calling out this bias and we're still trying to figure this out, right? I think this is um certainly um an unprecedented time of acknowledgment, but you know, still a lot of work to do, but there are also systemic barriers to start earlier than VC or even venture capital or excuse me, angel investing. Um And these are in the bootstrapping and the friends and family ground. So let's just talk about that here. You can see some sources, the sources of capital. So $500 billion a year goes to start up funding. But of that 60% is boots means that founders are contributing from their own income, equity in their homes. Uh We've heard the story of the credit card financing.
Um So 60% coming from start ups, bootstrapping founders, bootstrapping 38% of capital for start ups comes from the friends and family round. Ok. Less than 2% start up funding comes from an angel and venture capital. Now, I, I just want to pause here for a moment and I don't want to go too deep into it. Although we can discuss if there's questions, we can circle back to this. Um But when you look at the decision making process for venture capitalists, the bias is clear, undisputable data is there. But when you look at how many people are getting into the pipeline, how many women are getting into the pipeline? 20% of VC A companies are female. But we know that women are starting companies at, you know, at rates that compared to men, not more. So people of color are at companies, but they're not making it to a place where they're eligible for venture capital or institutional or even uh angel funding in some cases because they haven't established enough traction. They don't have a product built. They may have an idea, they may have a team but they're not raising enough early stage capital or they don't have enough personal wherewithal to get their company to that stage. And what that requires is on average $70,000.
So between 70 $100,000 to get a company to a product stage and establish some traction, to put enough marketing dollars into a company to test the channels, test the levers and see where you can get a return. And that's really where institutional investors want to invest. When you've already identified the channels uh to put the rocket fuel on the ship, so to speak, why am I bringing this up? Because we know that there are wealth gaps in this country, 70% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. Uh Now, I think in, in light of what's going on with the uh with the protest happening um in regards to George Floyd and, and others, uh and the racial iniquity that's coming to national media attention. Um We have to look at these systematic barriers. Uh The average white household, for example, has seven times the wealth of black households and five times the wealth of Latinx households. And because of, because of the way that regulations from the Securities and Exchange Commission are structured, um There are restrictions on who can invest and so this is affecting people of color disproportionately. It's affecting women disproportionately who still make 70% 70 cents on the dollar of what white men make. This is the average white woman for black women. It's around for Latina women, it's in the 50% range.
Um And the reason why this is significant is because there is a definition of accredited investors uh that the Securities and Exchange Commission regulates what is an accredited investor, accredited investor makes $200,000 annually in income or if you're married um or you have household income of, of 300,000 that will qualify and you must have made this income for at least the past two years.
And, or you must have a net worth of $1 million excluding your personal residence. That is the definition of accredited investor. Well, here's the problem. Most Americans do not qualify under those definitions. So they don't have the freedom and the discretion to invest in markets to invest in their neighborhood. Start up when they do invest, um when they are allowed to invest, I should say it's through crowdfunding or very limited exemption. So if we just go back for a moment here, some of you may be familiar with RCF crowdfunding platforms like Republic or um you know, uh there's several other, I guess it shouldn't promote one over the other, but there are several crowdfunding camp, uh crowdfunding platforms that are regulated by the securities and exchange commission.
They must register and win a not is on that platform. Um They are limited as to how much they can invest in companies. Um It can't be more than 5% of their, their annual income unless they make over 100,000. In which case, it's limited to 10%. And even a credit investors are limited as to how much they can invest in regulation CF offerings. That means um investments in your company that an issuer, a company, a start up, a founder is presenting on these platforms. Now, if you look here at the top uh under regulation D there is a provision under 506 B up to 35 non creditor, non accredited investors can invest in an offering. But the burden the founders to um make that offering to non accredit investors is much higher and they have to prove that the investors are sophisticated and there's a definition for that. Uh they have to do audits, they have to provide greater disclosures than they would if it was just accredited investors. Um And for regulation D 506 C offering, you cannot have non accredited investors at all, which means that if you aren't part of that, less than 10% of Americans that qualify as accredited investors, you cannot participate in those offerings.
So then when you break that down, um of the 10% who qualify as accredited investors, 26% are women and that goes back to, I mean, we're 51% of the population, right? Um But the fact that we are only 26% of accredited investors goes back to again those disparities um in the, in the wealth gap and in the income gap. So, uh and when you break it down even further of that, 10% only one black, only 2.3% are Latinx, which means there's a very, very small pool of female and underrepresented minorities who are accredited investors, they can invest in companies at the earliest stage to fill that gap, that 70 to $100,000 that will get a company to product and early stage traction such that they can even make it to the venture capital ecosystem and be fundable or to the angel investor ecosystem, be fundable because angel investors these days are pretty much looking for the for the same thing, exceptions, which are basically that you have a pre-existing relationship, which is still friends and family, right?
So, um herein lies the unspoken dirty secrets. And why does the SEC regulate in this way? Why is there an accredited investor definition uh that excludes 90% more than 90% of Americans? Well, there's a misnomer, um that is per perpetuating the wealth gap and that is consumer protection.
Now, I'm sure many of you have been watching the news, I've been trying to abstain from it because it's just so heart wrenching. But um I'm sure many of you are familiar with the fluctuations in the stock market right now, the stock market is considered the top market whereas start ups are part of what's considered a private market. Um, venture capital is a um specific asset allocation considered an alternative investment under private equity in the private market. Um But for some reason, the SEC uh that regulates securities laws. Um and, and these are also, you know, there's underlying laws that the, the SEC is bound to regulate, but there is discretion here. Um, basically they are claiming that the private market is more risky, but we see here in the public market that wealth is being lost overnight.
Uh, you know, when, when COVID-19 hit, uh, you saw 401 K's drop 20% and now, who know, where are they? Now, we can't even keep up. And, you know, I was formally federal licensed myself. I, I worked with families and households and the public market has liquidity, which means, you know, when your portfolio goes down, you see your, the stocks are dropping, you can now move your, your assets, you can sell. So you have the liquidity to do that, but now you're taking a loss. And if you're not sophisticated enough to know how to capitalize on the fluctuations in the market, which sophisticated investors do know how to do, then uh you know, you're less likely to be able to, you know, capitalize on the ups and downs of the market. So I would argue and this is my opinion and I'm not giving investment advice here no longer for a license. But in my opinion, the liquidity of the public market does not mediate the volatility of the public market. So what I'm trying to say here to simplify is that if you had the same amount that you may have in your 401k invested in a portfolio of start ups when COVID-19 hit the likelihood is that the value of your private market investments is not gonna go down overnight.
And even though there's not the same liquidity to exit your position, you know, the whole idea of the private market is, you know, with, with these um, private market investments into start ups that you're expecting to hold the investment, for example, in venture capital, which is, you know, you know, the, the industry that I'm in, we as uh fund managers expect to fund to have a life of 10 years, right?
Um And so there's not as much volatility. So this misnomer is that there's that there's a consumer protection argument for not allowing people to invest in the private market, but I wanna challenge that. So let's just look at one example with um with Uber, right? And this is obviously an wire company. Um So I'm not claiming that um every company is gonna have the results that Uber has had. But if someone hadn't made early investment in Uber, and here I give an example of $250,000 then it would have. And I'm talking about the early stage private market earliest stage. Then by the time Uber, IP O ed, that investment would have been worth over a billion dollars. OK. So I'd like to give an example that if there's um a sorority that wants to come together and maybe these are not accredited investors, maybe they're a mix of lawyers and docs and other professionals, some may make, you know, 100 and 90 dollars and 99 cents a year, but they're not accredited investors by the sec definition.
Um, and some, maybe, you know, maybe someone makes $50,000 as a teacher but lives in some place that has a very low cost of living and maybe they have, you know, million in, in, uh, net worth. But maybe they have some assets that were left via insurance or some equity in their home or, you know, other inheritance or something where they should have the discretion to, to invest. But under current regulations, they don't. But imagine they did imagine that, you know, uh 1000 members of a society decided to pull together their, their resources each invest $1000 a year so that there is a million dollar fund, the diverse that invest in, in diverse companies. If that investment club came together and made this early and Uber was one of those companies. Each, one of those investors could be a multimillionaire. And so what the SEC is saying now is no, you can't do that because we don't feel like you're sophisticated enough or have the capacity to become sophistic enough to understand this kind of investment. And I can guarantee you, the math is relatively elementary. If you went to a UC system, you should know how to do this math. If you go to a state school, you should know how to do this math because it's pretty much a requirement to get in.
So any college educated uh individual and many who are not co could do this math. It's not that complicated. It's certainly not as complicated as some of the, the public market strategies like spreads and put options and call options and things that are, you know, all have all these colloquial terms in jargon. So, is it the public are, that's, you know, again, we've seen the volatility just from COVID-19. You know, the market is down and it's back up and it's back and forth. But remember 2008, that wasn't that long ago, there was 16.4 trillion in net worth lost to the public markets and over two trillion in retirement that was lost due to volatility in the public market. So how is it safer or how is the private, private market more dangerous? So what this is truly speaking is economic engineering tech start up offering regulations are to the securities industry, what real estate redlining and was to lending policies in real estate. So we are seeing women and people of color dis impacted by these regulations. We're seeing our companies, our founders disproportionately um impacted by these regulations that have been in place for decades.
They've been in place uh when women had just got the right to vote, they've been in place when, when we weren't able to hold a credit card in our own names. You know, I don't know if you know, but it was up until the eighties, you know, that a woman business owner could not have a credit card for her business without a male cosign. Actually the National Association of women business owners that lobbied to, to get that addressed.
But there is an intentional, there is intentional economic engineering. Well, we went back and when I met um about the number of uh women who are angel investors, 26% some of the research has come out of the uh angel uh the um angel investor associations is that women are more likely women, angel investors are more likely to consider the gender of founders.
So this is not like the the institutional venture capital, female investor, the angel um female investor is more likely to consider gender and they're more likely to consider impact. However, there has been stereotypes that impact does not equate with uh returns which has been challenged.
And in this last, you know, crisis, we've seen that ethically minded investments actually have outperformed um the the standard investment. So what we're seeing is that there, there is and understanding that women care about impact women care about gender equity. And certainly people of color are put into a position, underrepresented people of color specifically. Um you know, or particularly I should say um they about these things that impact them disproportionately. And there is um there is, you know, a perspective, there is AAA an interest in making sure that women and underrepresented founders do not have representation, do not have economic power. So how do we solve this? And I'll spend uh just a few minutes going over this and then I'll go back and check and I'm just gonna check the chat room now. Ok. Oh, there's comments here. Yay. Ok. So I'm gonna go back to this tab here. So number one, the first solution uh and I'm calling on all of you who are listening and please do share um is to eliminate income and net worth based class of a credit investor and create a safe harbor. Sorry to, to, to use legal jargon here for sophistication. Um and create sophistication criteria. That is clear because right now, sophistication basically is a definition that says that you have the business that or, or education or experience to understand the investments that you're making. Ok? And that's certainly not required in the public market.
You can go and start a eshares account or, or you know, any, you, you can go and start an account to invest in the public market without having any kind of sophistication criteria. But what we're asking here and what um I'm proposing is that again, we eliminate the income based criteria and create a safe harbor so that any American can pursue a path to sophistication and that there's online certification, the SEC can provide it, it can contract with third parties.
Jason Kanis, who's an angel investor. He's a super angel. He invested in Uber and countless other uh uh uh start ups, early, early, early stage start ups um offers an angel um investing program. Um There's uh you know, different companies at the family office club that provide certification.
So there's plenty of opportunities to create online certification courses. Just like, you know, if you, if you went to school and you got a student loan, you had to take a class to uh know what you're getting into. Um You know, my husband and I, when we bought our, our first home, uh we use a down payment assistance program and we had to go to a home buyer training class. So it shouldn't be something that takes years and an incredible amount of capital to be able to invest because you want to be able to seize an investment opportunity, right? But it should be enough so that the SEC can be sure they're meeting their mandate and to protect investors by allowing investors to show, hey, we are sophisticated. We took basic math, we understand the risks that we're taking and we want to invest in our neighborhood, start up or, you know, other private market investment opportunity. Um And that uh we exempt qualified professionals from certification. So there's people who have already been investing, they already have a track record, they made multiple investments. So maybe they don't need to take a little course um or to certify that, that they know what they're doing because they've already demonstrated that.
And so we don't want to create any friction. These are, this is solution one, solution two. And this is something that's already kind of, you know, building momentum, especially in this past week around Black Lives Matter is um increasing investor access to inclusive deal float through a pledge, pledging to recruit to compensate equitably diverse emerging managers who can help source female founders who can help source underrepresented founders.
Um And we know it showed before, right, that women outperform, gender inclusive teams, outperform um ethnically diverse teams outperform. So we are benefiting investors by providing access to greater flow of these underrepresented groups. And we are also helping emerging fund managers such as myself establish a track record because just like there's barriers to entry for founders, there's barriers to entry for V CS. And as we saw earlier, the representation, people of color in venture capital is lacking and that compounds the problem. And so I am presenting to you uh partnership opportunities. We're targeting limited partners that is pension funds, that is foundations, that is family offices and multifamily offices that manage the wealth of high net worth individuals. Uh We're targeting family offices themselves, venture capital firms perspective accredit investors.
So those who don't meet the criteria now but want to have access to these investment opportunities. And last but certainly not least many of you in the audience today are founders and we need you as part of a coalition building um to be part of this movement to go to the SEC and say we want this change to go to LP S and to V CS and say we want representation. I was on two calls today. Uh you know, two different with a number of limited partners um who invest in venture capital firms and other asset classes. And they are acknowledging that, you know, there are returns that they're missing out on. They're acknowledging not only the moral but the economic imperative to invest in these underrepresented founders and these underrepresented general uh partners. And you know, when you're talking about public pension funds that are taking essential workers, their retirement funds and investing, they should be investing in companies investing in managers who have access to companies that represent the problems that they, that these pension fund essential workers are experiencing.
So we're looking to coalition build around this movement and you can help to join us by subscribing to updates at tech funding equity.com. Um being part of that movement. We are doing a survey of general partners, a survey of founders and we're not just doing it to tax you with another thing to do to gather data. We want to know how we can help you and we are committed to helping you. So with that, I welcome, thought I'm gonna jump back over and look in the chat room to see if there's any questions. And again, here's my contact information, um, my Twitter handle, uh the website where you can, um, you, you can co you can follow and you can also um follow the handle there and, and ask any questions here today or later on at tech funding EQ. All right. So let's see here. Thank you, sir, for putting the link there. Uh Let's see. Awesome. Yes, I will. And um, I'd share, I'd share this with you right now in the link, but I think I need to clean it up. But, um, certainly I'm, you know what I'll do. Here's what I'll do. If you go to, um, to Twitter, you'd send a message to me. I will either DM you or I will post it on my Twitter account.
Um So like to start there public and appreciate, you know, your help. And again, this is about advocating for uh tech funding equity. So, you know, this is something that to benefit you, it requires you. So how to approach an investor? Is there a specific pla many platforms?
Um Oh, let's see. Besides, you know, if you're, it depends on what stage you're in. So I wanna just go back to that to the earlier, um, you know, slide where I was talking about where start up funding comes from, 60% comes from bootstrapping, 38% comes from friends and family. So if you're at the very earliest stage, um, you know, you wanna make sure that you can connect with institutional investors. Mars has a wonderful both sides of the table where he talks about lines, not dots. Um And so, you know, investors like to track your progress, they wanna get to know you, right? The uh investment is a long term relationship and so uh your friends and family should know you. And um that's part of the reason why institutional investors want to see that you've already gone there. But we know that the opportunity to, to, to go to friends and family is not equal. So in terms of platform angel list is one place it's helping to democratize and you can get to know angel groups, you know, just do search, there's like golden seeds and you know, there, there's a ton of resources and then sorry, they don't come to the top of my my mind, all of them, but there's a ton of emerging resources of female angel investors.
So do the research, you know, just do a plain Google search female angels and um you know, start tapping into those, those um groups go on linkedin, connect with these um people there and let them get to know you. So don't just go in pitching as like, you know, you're going on a first date with someone that you don't know if they're not your friends and family and you know, like you're trying to get to third base on the first date, not gonna happen, you know, unless you, unless you've got incredible traction in which case, you can go to Sand Hill Road, right?
Um So, you know, get to get to know, um, people in that way, get to know institutional investors because once we close this funding gap, uh you know, the early stage, you know, you, you should be ready to go there um, to the institutional later stage founders to start developing those relationships.
And then even if you don't raise capital on the friends and family round, if you've been able to bootstrap and hustle, you know, I like to give the anecdote of um Air BNB. Nobody believed that two designers could launch a company. Nobody believed that anybody would want to sleep on a, on a couch or an air mattress in a stranger's house. Um But you know what they did during the, during the 2008 election cycle, they sold Obama owes and Captain mccain crunch cereal to bootstrap their way to, you know, continue building and they were, they were, you know, validating their concept with the, um with the, with the events that were going on around the, the election and uh the convention so, you know, be outside the box.
Um And when it comes to bootstrapping and if people see your resilience and they see you making progress in establishing traction, even if you come from a uh uh uh underrepresented background or socioeconomically disadvantaged background, you may by virtue of your relationship and traction, um be able to go straight to institutional investment and hopefully we'll change some of this stuff because again, this is a time of incredible momentum.
We need to seize this uh time, um where there's a, you know, as a catalyst for us to make lasting change. Um So we, we can push to open up the, the, the windows and the uh uh for capital formation from people who may not be accredited, invest uh accredited under the current definition, but have discretionary income to, to make investments in the people that they know and they should not be locked out.
And we certainly shouldn't have founders having to pay more and disclose more and do all of these things and have a higher bar than their more privileged um counterparts. So, uh it took a while on that, I hope, OK, and there's some great links here to connect with other people. Any other questions that need to, I'm trying to scroll through. So if there's other questions, please bump them back up. We have two minutes. OK. So uh how I look for board members from my nonprofit organization which focuses on stem there's probably some um oh, good question, but probably not my area of expertise, nonprofit. I would be happy to advise. OK. Well, then see this is us tapping into each other. So again, this just goes and speaks to the value of coalition, building the value of networking and again, I'm just so honored and thankful to the Women Tech Global Conference for having me here today, allowing me to speak with you and meet with you. I was so inspired um yesterday chiming uh just, you know, tuning in and I'll be tuning in after this. Um So how do you decide which starts to invest in? Honestly, I am an impact oriented investor. So I look at impact um but that doesn't mean that I'm sacrificing uh business plans. So or or revenue model. So what I look at is can you help me return my funds so that I can prove impact mixed money that we can earn money by doing good.
Um So I look at, you know, what is your market size? I look for what's ca what I can call a formula. What is your market? What is your revenue model? How are you going to reach your market? So I can do the simple math to say, OK, this times that equals this, you know, how is this company gonna, you know, be in a place where I can get a 25 X return on what I've put in so that, you know, I'm, I can uh return my fund even if half the companies I invest in sale because that is the nature of venture capital, but I only make investments if I believe that the company have that potential to have an outsized return.
So that's the number one thing I look at and I like to make those investments in companies that are impact oriented. So anyway, uh we're at time, I believe it's 309 and I wanna be respectful of that. And um but again, please do connect on linkedin, feel free to email me with any other questions. Um You know, follow me on Twitter and if you'd like a copy of the deck and um please do subscribe to Tech Funding equity.com. Um We're gonna be releasing a lot of resources just to simplify and clarify. Um You know, all the things that we cover today in terms of, you know, offerings, uh the differences between C accredited and non accredited investors, how to communicate with the SEC um and, and, and demand change because we do have the right to petition. We have many rights as citizens and residents that we need to take advantage of. So join me and uh I look forward to serving you and meeting you getting to know you and investing in you. Thank you again. Thank you.