Hello, everyone. Um Thank you so much for letting me share time with you today. I'm absolutely thrilled to be here. Um A little bit about me and my background. I have been a recruiter in the tech space now for 20 plus years.Um And so I literally have spent weeks where I've negotiated between 500,000 and a million dollars worth of salaries um for candidates rs us compensation packages. And so, um I wanted to, this is a really important topic to me and let's talk a little bit about my journey of why I think this is so important and why I'm so excited to share it with you. So um enough of the introductions, the other thing I will tell you is is that um as a recruiter, I ask a lot of questions every day. Um And I'd spend most of my time listening. So this is really uncomfortable format for me. So feel free to ping me later for individual help and advice or if you don't get your questions answered, I really feel very passionate about helping women get their fair share of compensation as they're going through the negotiation process. So let's go ahead and jump into the material.

Um So I was getting ready for work one day and I was doing a million things and kind of half listening to what was going on on the TV. And I heard a statistic that absolutely made me stop in my tracks. And that statistic was that with recent MB A graduates, 57% of men will negotiate that their first offer, only 7% of women did. And when you think of the implications of that, that non negotiation um really has very long term implications, especially if you're very early in your career. So think about it, if somebody has a um uh uh negotiates if a man negotiates 10 or maybe 15, sometimes $20,000 in that initial offer, then as they get a raise a year from now, that raise is predicated on that additional 10 or $15,000 when they go to make a job move, then all of a sudden their salary is higher, they're able to negotiate a little bit more.

And so um the implications of women not negotiating their salary has huge long term effect. Also, when you think about it, women are pretty likely to be single mothers and in my family, I was the one that was most likely to worry, be worried about buying tennis shoes and those kind of things. And even statistically, we know that women are later to start investing and I think part of the reason why we're later to start investing is is that we might feel like we have a little bit less disposable income to use to invest. So uh when I heard this statistic, it really set me back. And the other part of it though is is that I started thinking about my experience in tech over 20 plus years dealing with men and women and how they approach their career. And I will tell you that it's not the same that there are significant differences, not only in um negotiating salary but other parts of that. So let's talk a little bit deeper about that. Um What I, I noticed right after I heard this statistic, it just so happened that I had a number of offers that I was going to be extending both to men and to women.

So the first offer that I was extending that morning was to a man and that man had been working on contract. So he'd actually been making more total dollars than what our offer was in the very first time that I talked with this man, I said, look, we have a hard cap at this number. I know that you've been making more, but you've also been working contract. And so there's a reason why if you are not willing to take this number, I don't want you to interview. Um And I, I'm not always that direct, but this was one of those situations where I had a hard cap and I didn't want salary to be an issue when I got to the end. So the male candidate had interviewed, we got to the end. I extended the offer at that number. That was a hard cap. And I assumed that he took me serious when I started the process and told him that that was the hard cap number. Well, interestingly enough, he came back and asked for five K more. Now, I was pretty disappointed, shocked. Um But it was my obligation as a recruiter to take that number then back to the hiring manager. And I said, look, we've never done this.

This is a hard cap and he said, well, but yeah, he's a special candidate and things like that. We got him an additional two K. Um And I thought, wow, you know, talk about um understanding what the limits are, but still pushing just a little bit more and also getting rewarded for that the same day. I also was working with a lady um who had a skill set that was incredibly in demand in the tech space and she'd been working for a university. So I figured that she was probably pretty underpaid and we put a very fair offer on the table for her. And I know it was a significant about a $30,000 increase from where she had been because we were trying to get her more fair and equitable with what the market was. However, when I extended that offer, I knew in my um mind that I had an extra five or $10,000 to give that woman. And so I extended the offer and I was as quiet as I possibly could be. And in my mind, as a female recruiter in tech, I am praying that that woman just gives any indication I I is there any more that you can do? Is that the best offer, any kind of indication that she was not going to accept that?

And I could have pulled out an extra five or $10,000 for her. And after I'd heard this statistic and as I was thinking, I was thinking, ok, sister, come on, ask for more money and you know what, it broke my heart because she actually asked, hey, um I wanna be able to take my kids to school in the morning and pick them up in the afternoons.

That's what she decided to negotiate it instead of negotiating for more money. And it made me so sad. Now, there have been a lot of times as a recruiter that I have had that, that as we shape offers for candidates, we may say, hey, you know what, let's set aside an extra $20,000 in RSU so that they can negotiate or we might say, hey, you know what, we'll start at this number, but we know we have room to negotiate and the child is, is that women are ones who are less likely even to ask the question.

So when I titled this, you have not because you ask that, I will tell you that as a recruiter, I'm not seeing you ask. And so you're not going to be able to close that pay gap as women. Part of it is employers, jobs to pay us fairly. But the other part of it is for us to actually get those dollars. So let's talk a little bit more. Um about why? Right. So here I am, I'm extending offers. I'm seeing women not negotiate. I'm seeing things where they, they just are not, not um pushing to the highest level and I'm seeing men. It's funny because statistically by third grade, little girls start to underestimate their ability and little boys start to overestimate their abilities. And as a recruiter, I see this day in and day out. So I have this dilemma. I know that women aren't negotiating. I'm wondering why and I call my mama, right? That's what all professional women do. Um when they find out that that things are not right. Um So here's the thing is, is that um when I call my mama, um she says, hey Jenny, have you been being a good girl? That's the way she starts out every call every time. Um And so on the other hand, um when I finish up every call with my mom, um then I also get that same, um, thing about, ok, Jenny, be sure you're being a good girl, I think as women, um, we find that oftentimes we are expected to be and in fact, Stanford University studies show that we're expected to be cheerful and soft spoken and loyal, um, oftentimes in the workplace we're wanting to be good.

Right. We, um, worry about what other people think about us. We're very sensible. We try to do things right the first time and really worry about not doing it right. We try to keep everything tidy. The problem with it is, is as we're raised to be good girls. Um, we also tend to be seen as pushovers. We also tend to, um, find that, you know, it's really challenging to speak up to say our mind, to say no. Um, on the other hand, um, it's important that, um, we are able to, um, get what we need in life and it's also important that we edit ourselves enough, um, or I guess, speak up and advocate for ourselves. So let me give you an example of what I'm talking about. Um, as far as advocating yourself, I was talking to, um, one of my recruiter friends and she'd recently changed jobs and she also has two kids that are in college. Um, and so, um, with these two kids in college, um, she was concerned about how she was gonna pay for college and all those kind of things. And when I talked to her about this specific topic to get her feedback, she said, you know what's funny about that, Jenny? She said I accepted an offer with my current company and I know I'm paid about $20,000 below market.

Now, I found this comment by this particular recruiter really shocking and the reason why, um I found it pretty shocking is because, um, she's great and I've seen her advocate if her spirit animal would be more of that of a, a lion tamer, right? Um And when I said, I said, well, and her name's not really Sarah, but when I said, OK, Sarah, what happened? Why um are we, you know, wh why did you accept an offer that, you know, is so much um lower than what the market is? And she said, you know, Jenny, she said I was afraid. Um And so that's the hard part as good girls. Often times we are um afraid to push the boundaries. Uh We see negotiation as um challenging a relationship and that's really not what it is at all. What uh what negotiation is actually is just a business deal like any other di dis business deals that you go into. So let's, I wanna give you guys some real practical advice on how to negotiate on how to set yourself up um for success here. And so the first thing is is that you need to realize that when you're dealing with a recruiter um that they're not your friend, um that you don't wanna share your insecurities with them, that you really want to see them as somebody that you want to empower to advocate for you.

And so, um during the interview process, um what you wanna do is maximize your likability. Um So you really want to um to make sure that you're being cheerful and compassionate and all those things that we see um women doing that are valued additionally, then um you'll also want to begin building in your mind, at least a business case. So it goes something like here's what I see is the value that I can bring to the table. Here's the ways that I feel like I can make the companies better. Here's why I'm a great fit for that organization. And then as you're going through the offer process, remember that what you're doing is you're building bridges, right? So you, it the way that I see it is is you, you put together phrases that sound like this. You know, I'm really excited about working for this company. However, I also wanna make sure I'm making a good decision and I wanna, you know, I'm looking for more, whatever it is, whatever that ask that you have is. And then remember at the end of that bridge, you're going to also have to put in and I really want this to work out. Um And you put in one more soft thing.

So the way it goes is is you start with reasons why you want to work there, then you put your ask or the hard thing in the middle and then you close again with something about the reasons why you wanna work there, the way you think you can make a difference, all the things that you can do for the company.

Um Now it's interesting because in my career as a recruiter, there have been several times when I've had people actually bring spreadsheets into the negotiation deal. Now, I love it when I get a spreadsheet because it makes it very simple for me to say, OK, here's what the candidate wants, here's what we need. Here's how, what, what it takes to close the deal. Um It's interesting because I have never, not once in my career, had a female candidate come to me with a spreadsheet. It's always male candidates. Um So it's important to have build that business case, think about putting together a spreadsheet. The other thing that's really important as you're going into negotiation is oftentimes we're only concerned about salary and studies show that when you're negotiating um that you really want to have multiple points of negotiation. So that way in this collaboration, not me against you, but we're working together to shape an offer. That makes sense for everyone. Me, the company, everything is um you want to think about every possible thing that you could negotiate. So you know, you can talk about salary, you can talk about, you can negotiate bonus. Sometimes those two are fairly fixed, but there are a lot of other things that you don't even realize that you can negotiate. You may want to negotiate title.

So that, that way you can get the, the, at least externally the raise that you're or the, the position that you're wanting, some companies will allow you to negotiate vacation. You may want to negotiate a sign on bonus. Um You may want to talk about an MBO. You know, you, you can say, hey, you know what, I really want to work for this company, the compensation is a little bit low, but I think you'll be surprised at what I can be bring to the table. Why don't we find a certain number of things that over the next 90 days or six months we want to accomplish? And if I hit those, let's look at an NBO, you also can say, hey, you know what I really feel like I can contribute a lot. Um And if you don't get anything else that you want, you also can ask for a review in six months. So the more things that you put on the table, um uh an MBO is a bonus um that's based on um activity. So there's certain criteria for it and, and it's a bonus that's put together based on you do this, we'll pay you out for that. Um And so there are a lot of different things that you can negotiate and if you're only asking for salary, you might be leaving other things on the table.

Also by mentioning a number of different things, it allows you the opportunity then um to let them win, but also for you to win in negotiation. Now, there's one piece I want to, to kind of bring back and focus a little bit and that is the likability piece and the push too far piece because I actually have had candidates where they've pushed so hard in the negotiation that I've said, look, I just don't think that this is a um a viable situation and I've actually withdrawn offers.

I've had candidates that go, wait a minute, they go back to the hiring manager, they complain about me. Now, the hiring manager and I've worked together for years. And so it, this was only one candidate, right? He'd come with me at the spreadsheet. He was very hard pressing, but he had pushed the negotiation so far that it does harm the relationship. So he forgot to make sure that he was collaborative. So you really have to be careful in breaking up um your negotiations and being sure that you're building bridges and being sure that you're pushing far enough but not too far. And that's the hard part about all of this, right is, is that there's still a little bit more. Um So I'll give you a couple of examples of um, the challenge when you're negotiating is, is that oftentimes it feels really personal and it's very scary. Um, back to my mama, she always would tell me sometimes. Well, Jenny, who do you think you are, those who do, or those imposter syndrome is a lot of what women feel as we begin to negotiate. Right? And so I will tell you that it's going to take longer to get your offer through the process when you do negotiate that and you have to be prepared for those feelings of uh I don't know if it's gonna work that 3 to 5 days.

So I strongly recommend whenever you're in a offer negotiation, make sure your mentors there, make sure that you have two or three people that are on your side that are going to make you feel great. So that as you feel those feelings of insecurity, you have a support system to kind of back those up. So I will tell you, I got a call from a friend of mine who's in a university and um she got offered a new position um but she didn't get the title that she wanted, she didn't get the salary that she wanted. And so we put together a strategy and we went back. The problem was, is that in her organization hr said, you know what, you cannot make more than a 8% salary move So what happens is, um, she'd taken a big jump in job, but they were only offering her that small amount of money. And so we went back and really had her focus on looking at exactly what the job was, what the job duties were. She also had to get her manager involved and her manager's manager.

So this whole process took about two months um for her to kind of work through beginning to end. But at the end of the day, at the end of the negotiation, she became an executive director, um and she was able to get a $20,000 increase. So it is worth it. It is scary. Um But as women, we can do it. Um So if you're going to do this practice, practice, when you go to buy a car, practice, when you book a motel practice, when you're tht thrifting negotiation is something that as women we need to feel really comfortable with and we have a lot of opportunities to practice. Now, I know that this has been a ton of information. Um And I know that there are also some questions that I may not have answered and I apologize. 20 minutes is a really short amount of time to kind of go through all of these details. So what I'll do um if you have a question and it wasn't answered. Ping me on linkedin, I'll be more than happy to work through it a lot of times with compensation. It's a very personal discussion anyway. Um And then the other thing is is that in the chat, um I did put a um a link um and it's for a um pro core um uh yeti. Um So please go out um fill out the thing.

I promise I will not contact you unless you win the yeti or um you know, if you wanna contact me, if there's any way that I can help you in your career, please feel free to um ping me on linkedin. And um I don't know if we have time for Q and A, but if there's any questions that haven't been answered so far or I'll just go through a few until I'm sure that we're done. Um So when a recruiter asks you for um your compensation range, um Leena, I will tell you that I would tell you as an interviewee, never, never give that na number out. Um And the reason is what you wanna say is I'm open to a reasonable offer. I'm really excited about your company and then you wanna ask what the salary range is instead. Um because the instant that you give a number out, you're now not only anchored to that number, but also probably about $10,000 less than that number because your typical recruiter thinks, hey, if you ask me for, um and if you say you want 100 and 10, I'm gonna automatically think, well, you want 100 and 10, but you'll take 100.

So always when you're talking about compensation, try to gather data as a candidate rather than give data up. All right. Um So, um I do if, if you're in a, uh do I recommend putting it all everything on a spreadsheet? I do. Um And I don't necessarily um handle the, I, I don't necessarily think that putting all the data on a spreadsheet, you want to share it with your recruiter unless they ask. But I do think, I think what's important when you put together your spreadsheet is to look at your current total compensation. So a lot of times we don't take into account the money that companies put in with additional benefits, you don't really calculate out what your stock options or your RS US are out. So I do think in terms of negotiation, one thing that you do on one side of that spreadsheet is putting your base, put in your bonus, put in your max bonus, put in the amount of money that you get um maybe invested or contributed to your 401k. So you have a really good idea of what your current state is. Um And then when you're talking to companies and you're looking at those offers, don't um hesitate to drill into some of the details.

So, ok, we've talked about salary and bonus, but what is the 401k vest look like? Or can you send me a copy of the benefits so I can see what's in there or what's not in there. Um So I think that that's definitely a spreadsheet that you need to have. If you're in, if you're an executive, if you're in a complex negotiation, sometimes it is easier just to put all the things that you want in a spreadsheet and share it with a recruiter. Um So, you know, how would I handle it if negotiating does challenge the relationship? I know we had a couple of those. Um Here's the thing is we have got to advocate for ourselves, right? Um And if you're in an environment where advocating for yourself um is seen as controversial, there's one or two things is happening, either you might not be in the right environment or the way that you're advocating might not be uh or you might wanna try different approaches until you can figure out a way to negotiate without necessarily uh up upsetting the Apple Cart.

So oftentimes I um spend time before the negotiation, I'm stockpiling compliments building up likability. Um Making sure that, that I have gathered enough data points about why is this position important? How will it affect the company so that then I can reinforce my value. Um Let's see.

Um So, real market value for the role that you're applying for, there's like 11 or 12 different places um where you can get your value. But the other thing, I will tell you is, is the best way to do it is to get ranges from recruiters if you have friends in the industry that you feel comfortable talking with about that. Um But indeed salary.com linkedin, there's a ton of places where you can get um an idea about the real market value for, for the role, but also the real market value for your, your skills. All right. Um Any question? Oh, why not? Just give her the extra um five or 10. Um So wh her, we gave her a very fair um the o offer um that was right in line with market. Um However, she could have gotten a little uh a little extra. There have been many times when I've called a candidate back and said, hey, what, hey, guess what? Surprise I got you $20,000 extra srs us, which were ones that we just, we'd expected them to negotiate for and they hadn't. Um I, you have to understand that as a recruiter. Um I am a full time employee of a, of the organization and in this particular organization, I actually had RSU si considered myself a company owner.

So while I could have just given her the extra five or 10-K, I'd already put a very fair offer on the table for her and I wanted to do not only what was right for her, but also what was right for the company. So if she had pushed for more. I'd have been more than happy to give it to her, but I knew I had a fair offer on the table and putting on my company owner hat. I didn't wanna just give away five or 10-K if I didn't need to. I hope that answers your question. All right. Um, well, thank you so very much. Um, I guess when you're asking for. Um, yeah, so let's talk really quickly about um a confidence uh about a topic and, and I apologize because I'm not sure how long Q and A was, is supposed to go. I, I thought I had 20 minutes from my presentation. So let's just really quickly go about how to ask for a raise. What happens a lot of times when you're young in your career, it's um a thing called salary compression. So what c recompression is, is usually during the 1st 3 to 5 years of your career, your skills grow much faster than your compensation because you come in knowing nothing. And then in five years, you're really valuable to that company.

You've learned a lot, you've demonstrated a whole lot of new skills. The problem is, is during that five years, you've only got 3 to 5% raises. And so now the value of your skills externally are much more valuable than what you are internally and then it's always hard, right? So, remember that and, and even in an organization, if you think about it, the folks that are gonna get the attention are the ones that are making a little bit of noise. You don't wanna be the loudest duck or the tallest puppy so that you're the one that, that gets smacked down. On the other hand, you start by building a business case in each of your quarterly reviews or, or, or whenever you get the opportunity to have a one on one with your manager, what you're gonna start doing is building that business case. So the way that I recommend doing that is keeping an accomplishment journal every single week at the end of the week or every month at the end of the month, sit down, write down what you're most proud of.

Write down the impact that that had to you personally, to the team and to the business for a recruiter. It's really easy because you can say, hey, you know what I brought in these four executives and these three people and here are the things that they're done. This is the way that I'm driving revenue, but every single other um way that you're adding value to the company, you start documenting because you're gonna use that to build your resume. You're gonna use that to build your business case. And as women, we are much less likely to celebrate our accomplishments. So pull all of that stuff together and then you start your marketing campaign. It's and this is going to be if you're interviewing for a job all of a sudden it's a big campaign. If you're in a job and you're wanting a salary increase, then it's what I call a drip campaign right over time. You're going to start saying, hey, here's what I've been doing. Here's what I bring to the company. Here's why I'm a great employee. Um, and then ask them also for feedback, what do I need to do to get to the next level? Where are, what are my career opportunities? So change that conversation with your manager into a coaching session as well. Um Now, hopefully, then you can explain the value that you've brought to the table, the things that you've done to get to the next level and your manager will realize that you're really translating that or you're really pushing for the next level and you can get that raise that you're at.

Unfortunately, that doesn't always work. And quite frankly, as a recruiter, I've helped a lot of people get more equitable with the market in that 357, 10 year range. So if you've done all of those things internally, the next option is to go out to interview externally, you know, and be very careful when you're interviewing externally, not to share what your current compensation is, but um begin understanding what jobs are available to you, what those jobs pay, how they pay.

And at the end of the day, you might have to come back to your manager and say, look, you know, I love working here, but I'm stuck from a compensation perspective and I have other opportunities. So not companies have a hard time handling that salary compression. It's a common problem that's happened everywhere. And so um you know, build your business case, have those conversations be brave. I know that those are really scary but pretend like you're advocating for someone else. That's the biggest advice that I can give you. I watch females that will absolutely advocate for kids or for coworkers or for friends and then when it comes to themselves, they completely back away. So I'm gonna tell you when you're dealing with these situations and it feels uncomfortable, take a step back and be believe that you actually are advocating for someone else. Um And I think that that helps make it a little bit easier. All right. Um So ladies, I think that that's all the time that I have. Thank you so much um for your attendance. Um Thank you for spending time with me. Please feel free to reach out on linkedin. Um It's a little bit challenging in this format to keep up with the questions and, and also um to answer everything. So, um I, I'm really here to help anytime that I can and best wishes in all your negotiations. Ladies.