Go.

Cool mid. Um Hello everyone and welcome to the series of Fireside Chats by Women Tech Network. We are inviting phenomenal and outstanding women to inspire and empower you to grow professionally. Today, we have a special guest. Her name is Yibo Soko South Africa Ecosystem lead at Sy Lapse, chair of United Africa Blockchain Association, founder of Essen script consultants, as well as United Africa Women and Blockchain and Ethereum foundation.com alumni. She was also one of our amazing speakers at Women Tech Global Conference 2020.

Hi Oliva and welcome.

Hi, Anna and thanks for having me.

Super excited to help you with us. Thanks for your time. Um So for everyone who is tuning in, feel free to ask your questions in the chat or in the comment. And whenever you hear something that resonates with you, please do let us know in the comments. Uh So let's get started. Yeah, li how did you become passionate about Blockchain and cryptocurrencies and what were some of the biases that you encountered on the debate is so highly male dominated space?

Firstly, uh to be very honest, it was more about looking for an alternative, you know, uh looking for something that was going to make me relevant uh for the future. And um I had interaction with cryptocurrencies because at some point I was earning in crypto. So I started to dig deeper into the technology. And then I came to realize that this was actually beyond cryptocurrencies. It was something that could actually change a lot of things, not only to maybe improve and also just impact a lot of lives. So I decided to be quite involved um in, in, in, in researching and I started developing a curriculum to really teach myself, which I ended up using to teach other women. And the sole purpose of the meet up was to really look at opportunities. What opportunities are in this space, how do we tap in? So that's where it all started.

Interesting. So you've been earning actually in, in, in uh and, and then you decided also to start educating yourself and you started educating other women, right? Uh There is someone famous said, when you educate a woman, she will, when you empower, educate a woman, she will empower other people. So this is really cool that you have started. And um how in general was, you know, uh did you like encounter any biases, you know, that you're a woman uh or like did like people uh said like, OK, but this is more like of a guy's face or like, how, how was it or you didn't maybe feel anything like that? Oh, I

did. I did. Especially in the. So it's like, does she really know what she's talking about? Like before you even open your mouth to speak? Right. And, um, so the moment you speak and everybody's like, oh, wow. So, and then they start warming up to you a little bit more. So, it also came with, uh, the confidence of saying, look, I'm not here buying a stick, I'm here because I belong here and you're going to hear me out whether you like it or not. So eventually people start to believe in you and believe in what you're doing. So

it sounds like it takes some extra efforts, right? You need to kind of extra prove yourself that you know your stuff, right? Because people start to judge you, right?

Of course, you have to, you actually have to work harder well, before you had to work harder. But um I think now things are changing a little bit, but before then it was like, OK, you could be the only woman in the room or the only woman among the speakers so that she really know what she's talking about and especially when you come from a non technical background. All

right. Right. So you need to, you need to, to kind of uh make, make, make sure that they understand that you know the stuff. And in one interview, you mentioned that there are often trust issues when it comes to working with African women is this trend going down?

I think it is, it is actually going down because there have been a number of players in the space and most of them, like,

actually, I think you're contributing towards actually changing.

A lot of women have really come up and, and they're doing their best. So they've been recognized. So, I it has really, really um changed. I'm seeing women pushing,

right. I'm very happy to hear that. To be honest, you know, when it comes to global citizenship, what it actually means and how someone can become part of it. And do you consider yourself to be a global citizen?

Yes, I am. And um I would say that because I'm involved in technology and technology has changed a lot of things, technology has made the world smaller, right? Um Right now people can even participate financially. I mean, um you can send money across through the Blockchain and cryptocurrencies.

There's so many things that coming up like you and I right now are having this chat and this all just brings everything together. So the world has become smaller. Technology has been a great catalyst. So and I have been participating, but you only become a global citizen once you begin to participate in this global economy and to make a contribution to the global economy.

So for, for people who maybe are not familiar with the definition, what does it mean? You know, global citizenship? But what does it mean to be a global citizen right now? To be a

global citizen is to, it's being able to impact globally. It's being able to participate uh financially, right? It's being able to be a voice. You might not always be out there outspoken, but in your own way, you're able to tap into this global economy. Whether it's through um technology, you're able to interact, you're able to send and receive money, you're able to create solutions that bring change. And that change could not only be uh it's not only for your demographic, it's a change that cuts across borders and, and, and that's across sphere. So that's what it actually mean, right, a long time, I always give this example a long time if I needed to or to work with, with, with a company in Europe. Um coming from Africa, I had to get a passport, I had to get a, a visa and I had to travel, right, in order for me to make an impact, even for people coming into Africa. Most of the times they had to travel to Africa, get visas and really come and make an impact. But now all that is changing, I can make an impact from exactly where I'm sitting.

Right. Yeah, I mean, like it creates no borders and everyone can join from any part of the world, right? So does it mean that everyone can become a global citizen or what it takes maybe does it take some skills that it takes some kind of um like for example, to have a gross mindset, what does it take?

Anyone can become um a global citizen? I think it's just actually where do you want to participate? Right in that whole? And what, where do you want to participate? Where do you want to see, you know, there in, in, in life, there are different, there are people who are key players, there are people who are uh innovators, there are people who are users of products. So where do you see yourself? Right? I think anybody can become a global citizen, but it depends on where you see yourself and at what level do you want to participate?

Right. So you need to determine for yourself and then work toward that goal, right? Um In, in this case, do you need to have to surround yourself with people who have, who consider themselves for example, to be global citizens? So they can kind of uh uh help you or like take, take you to the circle or like you can acquire their mindset, for example, or the things that they are doing a certain way.

Definitely. Um I believe people really resonate to people who look like them, right? Uh People need their own heroes. And for example, women would look at another woman and say, wow, she actually did that. I can do that also, right? So people are always looking for heroes and the one heroes who look like them. So once they're able to and for, for, for, for those heroes, I don't, I think it's, once you get there, don't look down on other people try to bring them along because I think that's what actually cut people off. Right. It's look, I did it, you can do it. I might always, I might not always be available, but whenever I am available, I can be available, I will be there to actually lend a helping hand

to help people, right to, to come uh as, as basically high as you are, for example, or as close to what you are doing, right? Who are some of the important maybe role models for you or like mentors, they have impacted you or, or like you, you kind of didn't have them just go your way like I can do that. OK? I don't have any role models but I can do that.

Yeah, I think for me, um it was oa opera. I love Oprah and also I love um President Paul Kadam. Um he's from Rwanda. So there's something about him that always resonates. I'm like, actually, you know what I wanna be like those people somehow, I mean, they might not be the most positive people to some people, but there is something in them that can act, that actually triggers me.

Right. Right. I think in one interview you mentioned that you would really allowed to have, uh, to have a meeting with the president. Right. Oh, yes. Yeah. Why not? I mean, like it's gonna happen. Do you think that we should dream as big as possible? Because what if our dreams can come true? Right. How it would

come? I mean, I think it's as far as you can see. Right. So, once you can see it, you can do it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, you know, coming back to the whole field of Blockchain and Cryptocurrency, when we look at the numbers of women in tech in the world, they are dramatically low, right? And despite the fact that Cryptocurrency and Blockchain are said to be 11 of the largest disruptive technologies in the world. I know that the situation with women in Blockchain is actually not better. The statistics show that it's um like only 5 to 7% of all the Cryptocurrency users are women. What do you think is the main reason for that? Like, why, why, why there are not so many women in this field?

Ok. So I'm just gonna tackle this kind of an a general situation. So women are always coming from the back, right? So it was a situation where we came from the back because from way back from our grandparents and our parents, it was more like look, a woman's place is at home, right? So a lot of women at a particular point in their lives aspired to be ma married women to be wives, to be mothers and all those other things, right? So it was like, look, your place is in the kitchen and raising the Children at home. The man has to go and work, the man has to have a career and come back and provide. Then things started changing a little bit more. But, and even when things started changing, there were certain careers that were for women, for example, it could be a secretary or this and this and that a lot of women didn't have a place at um at, at, at, at the boardroom table, right? And eventually the uh gender equality started kicking in and there was a push and a push. So remember, there's still, we're coming from the back, right?

It's like it's a race and we, we still need to catch up because we, we we're looking at men um in, in certain industries and let along the tech space who have been in, in corporate for a very long time for years and years and years and they're still there, right? And um then there's still more men are coming. So women who are really pushing are kind of our generation are kind of pushing boundaries. And that's why I said, I think they need uh women need to see more women doing things and then they'll look at it and say, look, she has done it. Why can't I do it? And also it also comes back to the home environment. I know from an African perspective. Um, there's, well, I'm gonna call my grandmother but me, I saw rest in peace but I know sometimes she'll say she'll say, you know what? You're very smart, you're very ambitious. But at the end of the day you would get married and there's certain things that you need to do and I'm like, no, I will get married. But I have, I have to be me. Right. I have to achieve my very best. So it's, it's, it's, it's been there. So we're breaking out of it and, and coming to this point while my mom is one of those women that says, look, go and do what you have to do at this particular point, run your risk, right?

So there's a change and now there's women like us who are coming up and there's younger women who are following us. So I think everything is gonna gradually change,

right? It just will take time, but we need to not to, not to give up and like continue pushing and continue. Um being

my younger sisters, my younger sisters have a very different perception because they see me doing certain things, right? So things begin to change.

Right. Right. I like that. Um So, you know, you're a chairwoman of the United Africa Blockchain Association, what does association do and what the progress has been done so

far? Well, the association is mainly looking at really changing the way we perceive um technology and Blockchain and really providing solutions through education, skills, skills development. We're looking at gender equality. So, but our main focus right now has been education because look, I can't come and talk, develop skills when people don't even understand the basics of Blockchain technology, right? So we're also trying to drive a lot of usability um in terms of the technology through partnerships.

Uh so far where we started a pilot um for the train, the trainer. Well, our main goal is to educate a million people in Africa on Blockchain technology. So we, we've started our pilots and we'll be moving along with the trainings though. Um We, we are not doing it at the capacity that we want to do it, right? Because all of this is more of ok, we are passionate, we're pushing, there is not much external support, but we have to keep moving and we have to keep doing what we are doing. And so far, a lot of people have been coming on board and saying, look, I want to volunteer, I want to train um or maybe I just want to be part of this. I want you to, I want to be part of the classes. So we normally, um ever since COVID started, we were supposed to be having our classes on site, but we are now conducting our train, the trainer classes um online. And we had our first cohort in April which was our pilot and it was very successful. So now we're trying to um really scale it and, and move forward though. The the thing is that the interest has been phenomenal because even the de demographics, right? We had people from as young as 12 and to people as old as 58 are registering for them.

So it, it, it gave us a lot of hope.

So it sounds like, you know, it's cross generations, right? Because there, there is a need to educate a different, different age groups. And did you notice like any trend, like for example, the younger generation is perceiving it easier and they understand they get it. And the elder generation, for example, are a little bit like they, they need more time for example to.

So uh for the older generation, um it was more about, OK, we've been hearing about Blockchain and we've been hearing about cryptocurrencies. So maybe there's a possibility of making money, you know, maybe they're going to show us how to make money. And then the younger generation is like, look, I want to learn this. I want uh I want to be part of this, you know, I want to develop, I want to, I want to be somebody I want to pursue a career. So that was one of the aspects, but the enthusiasm was great. Um A lot of questions were asked. So um it showed that it, we, we, we made it very basic for um even for a layman to understand. So I think it really helped uh with the generation, but the younger generation were really hungry for more.

Right. Right. Um Did you, like, have more participants that you expected to have offline or how did the situation with, you know, with COVID? Did you did, how did it impact you? Actually, this project?

Actually, um we, we actually had more than we had expected because it was just uh during lockdown and people were so anxious, there were a lot of things going on. So we, we didn't expect that much of a uh a turnout, especially after shifting everything. And um looking at the situation of, let's say participants from South Africa, you know, I consider South Africa to be one of the most expensive countries when it comes to internet uh data, right? So if people can be willing to say, look, I wanna learn, I'm going to log into Zoom and um I'm willing to pay the expense, the data expense. It really encouraged us. All

right? Cool, cool. Um And I want to talk more about your journey and like in 2019, you've been selected as a Dav con V scholar amongst 50 other candidates from all over the world and uh in the to participate in the Theorem foundations, Blockchain and cryptocurrencies programming.

So tell us more about this experience. It was in Japan, right? How, how, how did it enrich you. What did you expect? What was, uh, you know, what was the reality and, uh, what you have managed to learn and to bring actually to back to Africa.

Definitely. So, actually when I got the news that I was selected, it wasn't my birthday. I was like, oh, early birthday present.

So, was it actually before we just dive in? Was it like difficult? Like, did you like? Ok, I saw it. I, I wanna go there, I just apply or like thought maybe I won't fit. How, how was it your feeling?

No, it was actually um a friend of mine um who's also on the board of UAB A and quite influential in the things that I've been doing. Uh send me the link. I said, hey, you need to apply for this, right? So I said, OK, why not? And I applied for it. I got selected and um the journey started way before Japan. So we had um classes and um I had my first interaction with smart contracts and it was really great getting to meet a lot of people from around the world. I met a lot of friends, but it also showed me something, it showed me that, you know what, as long as you put your mind to it, anything is possible, right? Because I'm uh this was a group of people, very smart people with diverse backgrounds. Um We are developers, I'm here. I have no technical background. Right. And I'm tackling this and I'm telling myself, you know, what, I came here to represent Africa, I came to win, right? I came to change the perception of, of what Africa is and the people that are in Africa. So, um I pushed my boundaries and II I became top learner and I was very proud because actually, um at that particular time, I'd also put Africa on the map.

Cool. I like that. Um What were like, what was, what was some projects that you worked on on what kind of people that you met that maybe impacted you? Maybe it's just one person, maybe all you mentioned people from diverse background. I really like that. But I think the diversity of pers perspectives and diversity of uh of thought really enriches you, right? As a person, regardless of the program that you are in. But um other than that, like how, how maybe share more about the program and the process, what it, what, what you expected or it was totally a different experience that you thought it will

be. I think it was, it was actually a totally different experience. Um I think we really, it took us back to what Blockchain really is. We, we, we actually started learning it from the, from, from the ground again, right? We looked at the white papers, we looked at the Bitcoin the theorem and the Theorem white papers. It actually um tested our creativity in terms of writing, you know, it actually brought up that diversity of allowing you to be yourself, right to, to express your culture as well um to write in your language, um give us a great interaction uh with, with um the development part of, of the technology.

And for, for some of us, we were not really technical, that was a very nice experience. And also the classes that we, you know, the um the lessons from uh consensus were actually really amazing as well. And just the support that we got in general from the whole three and foundation team and um uh the, the defcon team as well as from the program director, Robert Greenfield. So we really had a great experience and we were taken care of, we were educated.

What would you recommend someone who is thinking to apply to this? Probably they went online, right? I think they should have another cohort. So maybe some recommendations from your experience while filling out the, the application. What that would be?

I think, look, um the scholarship gives an opportunity for people who, who might not be able to make it on their own right to, to, to a defcon because it's expensive. But also it looks for people who have been trying really hard, right, who have been pushing um boundaries as long as you've been doing something in the space, give it a shot. I mean, um you could be selected and I didn't know I would be selected to be very honest. I, I just applied for it and, and, and I have that thing of, look, it's here. Why not? Right. It doesn't kill you to apply. So, be truthful about your, your abilities. There's nothing difficult, um, put in your CV, what you have done, what you wish to do. I don't know what the application form looks like right now, but, I mean, the opportunities are there,

right? Yeah, just, just give it a try,

especially for women as well. Yeah,

yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you know, as a leader of South Africa ecosystem at C labs. So what is your role and what challenges are you tackling, working on co and for those who are not familiar with co what, what, what would uh it would be good to share what actually this open source platform is doing,

right? So I'm, yeah, I'm working with CL A and SL A is the organization that's working on Coco is an open source Blockchain and really um the main mission of of co is to build tools that uh provide or provide conditions of prosperity for everyone co is mobile first. So I think that's a challenge that we have really had um in the Blockchain space is the complexity, right? So anyone with uh a budget smartphone can actually participate on the cellar Blockchain. And also it's I'll, I'll give you an example of the valora wallet. You can receive a cow dollars, right? Which is the stable coin just by using a cell phone number. I think that has been a major um problem in terms of Blockchain and Cryptocurrency adoption, right? People are really struggling when it comes to the complexities. And so what I'm really trying to do is to look at what solutions do we bring to the people, right? We're trying to create the conditions of prosperity for everyone. So and also building a community that really trusts in, in, in, in cow. And um also another thing that I, that I'm really, I'll just say I really tackling is is empowerment, right? Empowering the communities through Blockchain technology.

This is Blockchain usability brought to the people because people can't come to the table if they're not able to use the products that are developed for them. So that is what we're really trying to, to bring to the people of South Africa, looking at what are, what looking at their culture, right? So this is the culture in South Africa. How do we develop tools that also enhance that culture? Right? And and and really help them to be uh stakeholders when it comes to Blockchain technology?

Cool, cool. Um You know, and in general talking about Africa, we touched today a lot which is uh of course, because you're presenting the country and you're doing lots into making it a really cool space and include many people to participate also financially. Um how can Blockchain how can Blockchain be used for socio-economic good in Africa and in the world in general? And maybe what are, what are some of the obstacles on the way to adopting Blockchain in Africa?

Ok. So when you look at Africa, Blockchain has a lot of use cases, sometimes I don't know where to start. Right. Oh, yeah,

let's, let's start from, from the main, you know, pain points, right? That, that would really dramatically change uh change and the growth of the economy.

Yeah. So an example is stablecoins, stablecoins can really help with, with, with inflation, right? Uh If you look at most of the African countries and their currencies, they, they're just not stable at all at all. And um I'll give you an example of Zimbabwe, Zimbabwe. I don't even think Zimbabwe has a currency, right? Um Zimbabwe at one point is using the dollar and another point is using the South African Rands. So Blockchain can bring about um stable coins that can really help stabilize the economy. Um We're also talking about trade right, cross border, trade and cross border uh transactions. One example. And um I'll always say is that every time you need to travel across Africa, you have to either convert your local currency into the United States dollar. And then when you get to that other country, you have converted into the local currency, you've lost money along the way. And um it's, it's really expensive and also just conducting trade, trade is really expensive, right? And um another thing is the voting systems, right? Very poor as voting systems. There are a lot of people again that are and banked, right? Um They don't have bank accounts or they don't have access to financial services, the marginalized, I think Blockchain can change all that. So another one is, is national I DS, right? A lot of people don't have I DS so they cannot participate and in, in, in the country's uh economy, they cannot also participate in a lot of things.

So the land registrations, for example, I'll give you this, this, this this example of um what happened in Zambia at one time. So somebody owned 48 houses that collected rent every single month and nobody could find the owner. How is that possible? You see? So corruption is, so there's a lot of things and the educational systems as well. You know, there are a lot of people that are sitting in positions that they don't even qualify for, right? Just because they know somebody who's there or maybe they uncle ever is, is sitting in the

office whatever connection is.

Exactly. And um because there's no verification, proper verification of um these documents, right? Uh of qualifications. Although there was a a pain point for a lot of people, there's, there's a lot of unemployment and people sitting with their bachelor's degrees and all these diplomas and there's no employment because of nepotism. So there are a lot of pain points that if we begin to name them, we'd be like, ok, this and this and this and this and this and this and this that we might have to find solutions to eventually. But yeah, it's not an easy thing but the pain points,

there are some points that you are focusing on that. For example, I don't know, maybe like you feel like this is, this is part of my mission and that's what I want to change because of course, let's say we cannot change everything right ahead, but we can gradually do. So maybe what, what are the pain points that you are working on

right now is access to financial services, especially for women. So I'm working on a project called um Umoja which was actually shortlisted, shortlisted by UNICEF Innovation. Um So it's more like um I, I looked at the South African woman and I looked at not, not only the South African woman, actually the African woman because you find that um they're not able to meet their monthly expenses even if they're working. So they always go to um loan sharks. I don't know if those are popular where you come from, but they go to loan sharks and get loans at 50% interest that is 30 day loans and loan sharks are very dangerous can

happen.

Anything can happen if they can't afford to pay back, right? So it could be sexual abuse it could be physical abuse, it could be anything. So, but on a regular basis, these women if not, on a monthly basis are always borrowing money. So how do we help them? And also put together some kind of a marketplace for empowerment purposes? Look, here you are, you can buy and sell products from each other to empower yourselves. How do we make access to loans at a very low interest rate? Um How do we um make loans accessible at a very low interest rate? So that has been my focus for some time now. And um it's, it's like I said, and all this is, is, is a product being built on the Blockchain. And um it's, it's looking at, look, let me, we solve one problem at a time, right? So you solve a problem at that particular time. That is not so big that you have to involve a lot of people, but you solve a problem that you see very close to home.

Yeah, I like that. I like that. I mean, 50% sounds really crazy and the consequences. I mean, they are life threatening and uh not, not, not talking about like, you know, that they are dangerous. I mean, this is crazy

sometimes they can't, they can't make it to work. So you find that midmonth from the 15th they can't make it to work because they don't have transport money to work. So they end up, they have to go to work in order for them to get paid, they have to go and borrow money.

Yeah. Yeah. So, when you talk to these women, to your target audience, right. Um, how do they feel? Do they feel like, you know, there is a hope and they want to try as the first, as they, like, feel, not sure. I want to trust. It's probably complicated. I won't get it. How do they react and what maybe what some success cases that you have already so,

so far, so far, what i it is um started it, not on the Blockchain, but started it kind of offline, right? Kind of, hey, look, here's a Google doc. You can apply for a loan in groups of 3 to 5 collateral free and um it's trust is the only collateral there. So bring a group of women that you really trust and um here's funds made available to you in the same range that they normally borrow, right? And at least uh it's, it's, it's less risky and not expensive. Let's try it at 10%. How does that work for you? Right. So you started off at with, you started off with something that is very comfortable for them, right? And then you start to now evolve and move them over to a different platform. It's like school, right? So from school you're from, I'll, I'll, I'll give an example of Africa, I think from like um nursery school to grade one, maybe to a certain grade, you start writing in pencil, right? And from a certain grade you now evolve, say, hey, now you'll be using pens or now you have access to uh computers, you know, so you start with them at a level that is comfortable for them and you start to move them into something by teaching them what it is.

Yeah, that's, that's a good strategy to start with what they know and can perceive, can understand, for example, like a Google doc, right? And then say, hey, right? Not, not like just write ahead saying, hey, we were doing this, you know, it's, it's Blockchain but I was like,

what, what is that?

Like, I got, I got to take 60% now. So yeah, like you need to gradually build trust and you need to accept the things that, that are tangible and that are understandable but by your target audience, yeah, it's

like the bank, right? They start you with OK, open an account and then they're offering online banking. Then there's this kind of banking service and people eventually, oh, the ATM S now available the ATM card. So it's, it's that kind of apple.

That's right. I had everything, hey, online banking and here and there and it's like lots of stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, it sounds, sounds really, really cool. Um You know, maybe even coming, coming back to the socio economic uh you know, changes for good um what are some of the main obstacles on the way to adopting Blockchain in Africa?

Right. Um, I think the main obstacle, the first one is education. Right. But again, how do you provide education to people who actually don't think they need it? Right. So you have to find a way in which you provide this education. So you say,

you say sorry to interrupt, you say they don't need it because they don't feel that it would be. I'm saying,

how do you provide education um to people who don't think or who don't believe they need it, right? A lot of people right now don't believe they need Blockchain um education because they don't, they don't see the real life value at this particular time, right? If, if you bring across maybe something like, ok, we're educating you to become this because um there's certain um careers, right? And um and also it's, it's the experiences that people have had with cryptocurrencies. So they, they play a major role because a lot of there have been a lot of scams and multilevel marketing schemes that have come along and people have lost money, right? So how do you go to them and say, hey, here II I, I'm a bearer of good news, right? Well, the good news burned me at some point because somebody also came and said, hey, I'm a bearer of good news and this good news could change your life, right? So it's actually looking at use cases like, like I said, it's looking at their need, right? What is the need? How does Blockchain meet that need? Right. How can, how can they now trust this technology? It's like telling somebody who's, who's somebody is hungry and you're telling them actually I'm going to, I'm going to teach you how to, how, how, how to make food.

They don't have the ingredients, right?

And I, and I want to eat like I don't need to be told I want to eat, give me right now something,

give them the ingredients and, and show them how to, how to make bread. And also I think another thing that I've emphasized is that for a long time, Blockchain um was seen as a, by the way thing, right? As a side thing. So OK, I'm doing all these other things, but I'm interested in Blockchain. So um at some point, I'm going to dedicate a little bit of my time to, to understanding this technology. Nobody, nobody really took it as something that is serious. A lot of people did not take it up as a career. So I think the more people begin to see like now um in my uh uh in, in my case, I, I have a lot of people reaching out to me because they've seen um some of the things that I've done um being in the Blockchain space, they've seen me travel around the world. So you know, people are attracted by things like that. Right? They might not want to put in the hard work, but they want to know. So how does she do it that way? They're looking at somebody and say, hey, she's doing these things. I really want to know what she's up to. Maybe I can also get involved. So the more the people like us really take this seriously, the more people start to come to the table.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the more you share experience on how you're doing it through different platforms, through different communities, different events, right? The more people can, can learn and understand what, what is that, that you are doing, how you're doing it, how they can do it so you can make the the global change right? Worldwide? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like that. It's super, super cool. Um You know, we, we touched a bit, you know, the whole the whole COVID situation. Um So like with the, with the, with the training that you're doing your program and in your observation, your opinion, how did the whole COVID situation influence the whole Blockchain and crypto industry?

Did people, for example, start to invest more into Bitcoin and Ethereum and other cryptocurrencies or what are the changes, the major changes? How is it, did it, did it change the the field for, for better or did it like what the influence I'm curious about your opinion and observation.

I think, in my opinion, it actually changed the space for better, right? Um Because people started looking for solutions, right? So, you know, when people begin to look for solutions, because there's a problem, it actually brings about a lot of innovation, right? And there's also a demand for uh uh uh skills in the Blockchain space, right? So it, it, it opened up a lot of things for, for a lot of um people. And also, yeah, if you look at the the Cryptocurrency space, I'm not so much of a trader, but I, but there was people were buying more um at some point, the Bitcoin price was going up. So there was a lot of activity going on. And um like I said, what I was really, really happy about is actually there were people trying to say, hey, look, we need COVID-19 solutions. What kind of Blockchain solutions can people come up with? Right. That really um made me happy because I think once there's a problem, people begin to think differently, right? People are now no longer just interested in, in, in, in, in, in IC os and in all those other things, they were interested in real life solutions because we had a life threatening situation.

Yeah. Yeah. And you need to think differently. What kind of solutions can, can can I uh actually have like for alternative solutions? Everything that is possible, right? Because you're in such, there's such a global uh problem and no one knows how to tackle it. How can we, how can we, you know, how can we protect ourselves, how we can help others, how we can stop it? Like what are the solutions? Right? Maybe do you know some kind of of of solutions developed, for example, using Blockchain to tackle the COVID uh issues or the the the there are already results of like to help people or some kind of solutions in that direction.

Actually, I did not look deeper into the solutions that were developed. But one funny thing that I came across was that there was a Corona coin.

Seriously. Yeah, people decided to, you know, let's tell it

there was a Corona coin and actually it was the the the the higher the number of people that died, the higher it rose in valley. So that was really, it wasn't, it wasn't a nice thing. But you'd be like, oh wow, why did somebody come up with that? Um I know UNICEF Code um made a call for people to come up with solutions. A lot of organizations made calls for people to come up with solutions. How many of those solutions were effective? I cannot really tell at the moment, but there was really uh a push in terms of innovation when it comes to uh COVID-19,

I think they are still probably being tested some of the solutions we are in the process, right? And like it takes time and we will see later probably but some solutions could be right ahead. You know,

I mean if there are people with, with COVID-19 solutions, I'd really love to see those.

Yeah. Yeah, cool. So everyone who is listening to us maybe if you if you are working or if you know you can reach out to your liver on linkedin, right? Would that work for you and then share some of the solutions? I think that would be super interesting or drop me also a line on, on a link to some solutions on linkedin as well. So, you know, talking about Blockchain and Cryptocurrency, what's what's the future of Blockchain and Cryptocurrency? How do you think, let's like think things forward and I think uh I would like, should everyone like right now who is listening to us, who listen it later start if not yet into the field, start learning more because this is the future because this is like it will be a new normal, right?

Like right now we are using our mobile phone and that people would be, you know, using cryptocurrencies and pay them. So what is the future of Blockchain and cryptocurrencies?

I think firstly, I would say the future is really bright for Blockchain and cryptocurrencies. And I'll just give another example is look um Blockchain is, is really breaking certain barriers, right? Um especially when it comes to I'll also go back to the N banks, right? So um there was a time, especially during the first we, we, we had levels in South Africa, right? Um, when it comes to COVID-19, we were moving from like level five right now. We're in level two where things have been eased off a lot. But at some point you couldn't order food on Uber eats if you're using cash. Hm. Now imagine people with no bank account. Right.

Yeah, we just say

order takeaways just as an example, like a lot of organizations were not accepting cash for fear of infections. Yeah. Yeah, that really changed a lot of things for me and, and I said, look, they don't have a bank account, not because if they can have some money to go and buy takeaways, there must be a red tape somewhere that's stopping them from having a bank account. Right. So some people I am banked because of certain red tape even when they have the ability. Right. So, um with the use of, of cryptocurrencies and with the acceptance of cryptocurrencies by a lot of merchants that would have just changed a lot of things.

Right. Right.

Um So yeah, so I think there's gonna be especially now that the central banks are also looking into digital currencies, right. So, um there's this interest a very high interest in, in Blockchain and cryptocurrencies and central bank cryptocurrencies. So I'm sure the there's going to be we're going to see a lot of movement when it comes to uh cryptocurrencies and Blockchain solutions. And also going back, I think right now, like I, like I said, we have to look at solutions that sometimes are close to home, right? We can't solve every problem, but we can solve some problems, right? And with, with, we have to go back to the grassroots and say yes, we have all the solutions that we've looked at. I spoke about all these educational verifications and uh land registrations and voting systems. Those are so big. They will take a long time. But there's some grassroots problems that we can go back to and say, hey, I've identified this problem. How do we create something? It doesn't have to be so big, but how do we create something to solve this problem? That's where we see a lot

of adoption. Yeah, you can, you can solve one problem at a time and if locally you can do something that already would make a big difference. Right. Exactly. And um I like what you're doing at United Africa women and Blockchain. Maybe you can share more how everything got started. You shared that like you started the research and then created this huge dog of a 117 pages old. And she said like, 00, it sounds like already. Of course, I can share it with other people. So how did they get started? That you decided to focus on women? Did you like realize? OK, there were not so many women in Blockchain or you wanted to, to surround yourself with, with women who were interested in it and like someone who maybe doing something in that direction already. Um And what, what you're doing is it active right now? Like, I imagine you had more like off also offline events before the COVID situation.

OK. So the whole idea with um the women block in Blockchain started off as a meet up. So it was like every Saturday, not every Saturday, sorry, every first Saturday of every month. So we'd meet up for coffee, talk about Blockchain, talk about the possibilities and then look at, hey, how do we get involved? Right? So then when I became part of the United Africa Blockchain Association, we decided to formalize it and we launched it in 2019 August. So we had like a kind of a big launch event for uh the women in Blockchain and A I uh initiative and we set aside classes. But at this particular time because of, of COVID, we haven't really pushed um the classes because everybody's like, hey, um we were afraid to. So we decided to just do one, train the trainer pilot. And at some point, uh we might have to look at maybe, um dividing those classes and saying, ok, we have, can we have a focus class for young people? And can we have a focus class for maybe women or something like that? But it is something that I, I, I'm really passionate about and um at some point would really have to push it to certain boundaries. But for now everybody is just integrated into UA A. So that is just like, OK, can we have a meeting?

What are the women doing? Uh what are we doing for women's month? Just small things like that?

Yeah. Yeah. And are you planning to go online maybe later with some events?

Yes, definitely. definitely. Yeah,

I think people, women do really miss uh these gatherings, I believe. And uh and we also had stop some of um I'm part of founder of Coding Girls and we also had to stop some of the events and sub chapters and like it takes time, right? Especially if you have many chapters worldwide to find the formula that works. And the same with Z tech network, we had many events scheduled worldwide and then we decided to create a big one and to go work,

but we're also pushing the women um with uh C labs and co. So um um there is a cellar ambassador program and in South Africa currently like half of the ambassadors are women and uh they're doing phenomenal. Um We had um women's month feature for the w the the the women ambassadors. So there's, there's also that push and, and that drive um when it comes to uh Blockchain, I'm, I'm actually seeing the enthusiasm from, from the women.

Do you think it's connected to, they see you and you are a role model for them and they say if she can do that, I can do it. Right. No, I think it, it definitely the case because,

yeah, you know, it's, it's really nice to impact positively so, I hope so. I really do.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it, it changes everything when you see, um, you know, a female leader who could be a role model for you. And you say, hey, well, if she can do it, I can do it too. And then you have to say that we have half of them. I think it's not, it's not just a coincidence. I think it's really the impact of, of the things that you are doing and you are being a role model for them for sure. Yeah. So everyone who is listening to us, uh if you have some questions, please do, let us know in the comments. Um and other than that you can, if maybe some people would like to chat privately to you, they can reach out to you on linkedin. Um They have some ideas, suggestions, projects, proposal, whatever that could be. Um You know, I'm talking maybe uh you know, we talked about many things that you are doing. Uh What are some of the skills that uh you had to develop? What are some of the things that you uh set yourself to be to have to get what, where you are right? Now, as I said, you are a role model for many women. So how, how they can get what, what they should do, for example, to, to become a founder, what they should do to become a chairwoman and, and, and what helped you on the way? What kind of skills uh trainings? Um I don't know whatever that was for you.

What did you do uh to actually get where you are right now?

OK. So the first thing I'll say is develop a ski ski. So that is the first skill because you know, leading um is not easy. Uh You will get frustrated, especially if you're leading a group of people. And um it's a mixture of people, right? There's women, there's men. So if it was an all woman organization, maybe it could be a little bit different or a different story. So you are, is composed of everybody, women, men. And so uh and also I had to develop public speaking skills. Um I know at some point, I think uh some people say I talk a lot but I think I had to develop uh public speaking skills, right? And, and

how did you do that? Did you take some classes? Did you just go there on stage and did it? And then I know, ask for feedback and got improved. How, how, how was it the journey?

One thing I'll be very honest with you is I'm always nervous before I speak. So I don't know, I don't know if I've developed that skill, but yes, but um I just decided to be comfortable um in my skin and to always tell myself that, hey, you know what you're talking about, you, you've got this and sometimes you need support around you, right? Um Whether it's just family, it's friends and say, hey, look, I'm feeling a little bit nervous right now and you know that like uh people who believe in you, you need people who, who believe in you and, and who believe in what you're doing. And also I think I had to um I'm not so good with social engagement, but I had to, sometimes I have to dedicate my um time to really go back to my social media and say, hey, um I have to go back to my linkedin, look at all my messages and respond to response to people that I haven't responded to.

And um another thing I had to get um really organized and trying to see, OK, how do I do my things? Because there was a shift from just doing work that was kind of routine to really think outside the box and um and to grow. So I think the best thing you can ever do for yourself is just be confident that you are doing the right thing and you're not doing it for anybody, but you're doing the right thing for you, right? And um don't always listen to um you can listen to co uh constructive criticism, but don't allow people to put you down because that's what discourages a lot of people. Um If you surround yourself with people who put you down, look for people who really speak positive um about what you're doing. I think I had a great circle of friends that believed in me without really seeing what I was doing because sometimes I really did not know what I was doing. I mean, I, I didn't know what I was doing. I was, I was passionate. Yes. But where it was going to lead me, I had no idea. And every time I, I felt like quitting, I always look back and say no, you can't. Have you seen where you're coming from? Like keep going wherever, wherever it leads, right?

So um for, for me, in terms of, of the Blockchain, um there were no special skills that I had to develop. I just had to let my voice be heard, right? And sometimes like I said, in the beginning, you're going to make a lot of sacrifices, do them, you know, do what you have to do to, to get the recognition that you need, right? They say sacrifice before you can actually ask for your paycheck because once you are there, you have to say, hey, look, this is my paycheck. You, you, you, you, you, you pay for it all. I'm not doing it, you know, it comes to that point. But in the beginning, you really have to push your boundaries and, and like I said, for us, in the beginning, there were not so many women that were in this space, right? So you had to really advocate for yourself right now, the women in the space who can actually advocate for you and um who can point opportunities in your direction if um there are opportunities out there, right? So you are a privilege because um there are already women in the space that are actually making a real impact. I mean, a lot of people are part of um the women tech network right now. And I mean, that's a great platform already.

There are a lot of opportunities that are being pointed in people's direction. You see. Yeah,

it's interesting what you're sharing about your, your um experience, how it skills to meet the choir. And like, because I think sometimes people think that like, oh it's too complicated. It's too hard. I probably will fail. I shouldn't be starting like, uh I don't have these skills, I don't have tech background. I have tech background, but I don't have public speaking skills, whatever you write a book and it, you so you need just to, you know, keep going, it's messy. It's kind, it's like not clear what you're doing, as you said, like, yeah, but to surround yourself with a support network

and not everybody can be the same person in this space, right? Um You have to find what really drives you, right. What is it that you love to do? I, I feel like in the Blockchain space right now there's an opportunity for everybody. Right. There's an opportunity for people um for, for, for lawyers in this space, right? You could be a lawyer and still be involved in Blockchain. You could be anybody and still be involved in Blockchain. So, what is it that really drives you? And I think you should work on that and um perfect that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like that. Um So what is the next step in your career for you? I know you are doing many things and like uh like especially your project and financial inclusion for email and yeah. So what is the next big thing? Wow, there was that many of them?

No. Well, the next big thing in the Blockchain space or in general uh

for you, I mean, in general, in general.

OK. So I think the next big thing is really um I'm working on a cosmetic brand by the way. So cool. I

know you're passionate about fashion, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So that's one of the things that I'm working on, but I feel like in the Blockchain space it's high time that um will make a real impact. And um I'm I'm hoping to really achieve real usability and real impact, like really beyond the talk. That is why um iii I went ahead and, and, and started looking into this lending platform and um trying to see how it's going to work. But um the next thing I wanna be on phones. Yeah,

I'm sure it will happen sooner or later. It will definitely happen. Yeah, cool, cool. Um I think you deserve to be there with everything that you're doing and you're going to do because um you know, from the conversation with you, I see how much effort you are putting, you already know a lot and then you learn more and more and like implement more and more and surround yourself with, with cool people and then, and like global network.

Um you know, maybe the final message that you'd like to share with everyone who is working with Blockchain and crypto or who is just interested in learning more. What would that be?

OK. So for everybody working in Blockchain and crypto, what I'll say is let's look for real problems and solve real problems. Let's look for grassroot problems, problems that are caused to hard and near us. And let's make that impact, right? Once we empower those communities, the communities will become our voice and will move a step closer to adoption. And for people that want to get involved in Blockchain, I mean, the it it's still, it's still an open space. There are no experts at the moment, we're still learning.

It's not too much to get involved in whatever capacity you get involved, right? Whether you just want to learn and um, to, or whether you want to innovate, just get involved. Let's get started. Read a lot, there's a lot of um, information on youtube and you can reach out to us and, and, and we'll be there to help. We might not always be available, but we will make time

and you have a youtube channel. I know right there for you

asking for youtube. Let me go back to youtube at some point in

the video. Now the audience is asking for it. Yeah, I love that. I love the message and I think that definitely is needed. And like as you said, the space is still young. So if everyone who is searching for herself themselves, they could enter the space and find that spot to create some role that would be instrumental in solving the real problem as you said, like, so thank you very much. You leave it for this fantastic chat. I learned a lot, discovered new things like love what you're doing and your mission. And uh we are looking forward as I said to having you as a speaker at again at our events and um everyone who is joining us at hopping, feel free to go to the networking area. It will start in, in, in, in three minutes. Uh And uh you can benefit from one on one network if you have some time. I know you're super busy and if you have some time, you can uh just after our chat, you can go for some networking with us as well. I'm sure there are many people who would love to chat with you. And um so the best way would be to connect with you on linkedin. Right. Yes, definitely. We share, we share your link now in, in, in our chat on hing.

And uh yeah, we, we very, very, very, very nice. I'm very happy that you made time for us to have this conversation today and I'm wishing you a great evening, right? Um I think it's just you mentioned that it's uh late where you are and um then see you, see you online and maybe one day in person that I would love.

It was great being here and thank you for inviting me once again.

My pleasure. Our pleasure. Thank you very much. Bye bye bye bye bye. So everyone, how did you like the conversation? And uh I hope you enjoyed our chat with Yala Soo and we'll share the link to her profile, you can find her on linkedin and if you have an interesting an idea in the Blockchain field and, and, and, and um you can share with her the projects that you're working on. And as she mentioned, this is a space that you still need a mind with ideas and you can find there your place and uh how let us know how do you feel about the chat. How did you, like, let us know in the comments if you're watching the recording later. Um, we will be back in two weeks with, uh, another guest of ours. Her name is Alana Karen. She's director of Search Platforms at Google. We will be talking, uh about her upcoming book. It's called The Adventures of Women in Tech. How we got here and why we stay, we will cover topics like belonging, well being career journeys and more. And it's going to be an, an interesting conversation. I'm sure the date is September 23rd. And um in general, if you are looking more inspired and informative content, you can follow women tech network on social media. We are active on linkedin on, on Twitter, on Instagram.

We have also a youtube channel where you can find some of the um conversations, some of the talks that we had uh at women Global Conference 2020. Some of them are already available for public and some of the fireside chats that we do regularly. And um and do more, more of interesting and cool content to inspire you, to give you some insights and to uh empower you to grow professionally. I'm wishing you a great day, evening morning, wherever you are. Thanks a lot for joining us. And uh as mentioned, if you're unhappy, the networking area is already live, so you can go and benefit from one on one networking and wishing you uh wishing you all a great day. Great time and see you online. Bye bye.